Daily Mirror System

[coolboy]

Daily Mirror System

Each Day Look In The Mirror For Races Upto 12 Runers No odds Ons 1/5
from 4/5 is ok
Pick The Ones Which Are Sf And F In Each Race And Put Then In A Dutch Bet You Get A Lot Of Winners With This Systems Or You Can Do To £1 Stakes.

TO DAY SUNDAY 16

GOLDHILL PRINCE WON
AQUALUNG WON
YAAHOMM WON
EL BANDITO WON
LOST
BUNKUM WON
MISTER GRAHAM WON
GUILSBOROUGH GORSE WON
EVERREADY WON
BALLYVADDY WON
LOST
WICKED NICE FELLA WON

Steve

[ryalux]

please what is no old ons mean.
many thanks

[coolboy]

no odds on sorry like 1/5 from 4/5 is ok

[ryalux]

i see you've changed 14 runners to 12 runners. is it 4-5 or better fct in mirror anything under 4-5 scrub?
cheers

[coolboy]

yes mate 4/5 or better in the mirror i been looking here

http://www.no.links.without.permission/ sports betting calculator i been looking at the staking plan looks good. you get 2 day free if you download if. go have a look let me know what you think.

Sorry coolboy, that link is to a pay site so we can't allow it.... anyway, there is tons of info on here on staking plans, especially if you join us in the members area. Betting calculators - most online bookies do them nowadays, and there are also free alternatives around. You can get a free dutching calculator from myself or Oldham.

[ryalux]

coolboy do you stick to level stakes or do you use a staking plan?
cheers

[coolboy]

sorry for the link did not know sorry .i been dutching then .i looking for a good staking plan but it got to be a software one.

[GlosRFC]

In one of your cooler moments, can you please explain what you mean by "pick the ones that are SF and F" - is that shortest favourite and favourite?? Or second favourite and favourite.

I'm also confused when you say "no odds on" but follow that with "1/5 from 4/5 ok"

Otherwise your system seems to be producing some interesting results - just a shame it has to be the Daily Liar newspaper :flush

[Workshy]

F is for fancied
SF is for strongly fancied


(i think)

[coolboy]

thanks workshy. never back anything under 4/5. sf.strongly fancy..f fancy
lets say i but one up at 6/4. and it opens up at 8/11 etc no bet in that race
well you can but i do not have a bet in that race .

[ryalux]

does it make a level stake profit. you need to be honoured for me to take an interest in your system coolboy.
best wishes ryalux

[coolboy]

I Been Doing Then In A Dutch Bet Its Doing Ok So Far. But I Looking For A Good Staking Plan.i Have See One That Looks Good But It
Cost £35 To Buy. It Works Out Your Stakes For You.it A Software One.

[ryalux]

phew!!

[MarcusMel]

Curious.

Why do you need a sofware staking plan - Do you have Excel or some sort of spread sheet software?

[coolboy]

Daily Mirror System

Each Day Look In The Mirror For Races Upto 12 Runers No odds Ons 1/5
from 4/5 is ok
Pick The Ones Which Are Sf And F In Each Race And Put Then In A Dutch Bet You Get A Lot Of Winners With This Systems Or You Can Do To £1 Stakes.

Anyway, big field races are a lottery and benefit only the bookmakers. You are much better off looking in races with 12 runners or less

TO DAY SUNDAY 16

GOLDHILL PRINCE WON
AQUALUNG WON
YAAHOMM WON
EL BANDITO WON
LOST
BUNKUM WON
MISTER GRAHAM WON
GUILSBOROUGH GORSE WON
EVERREADY WON
BALLYVADDY WON
LOST
WICKED NICE FELLA WON

Steve

[racing1]

Bigcumba
any chance you could send me the dutching calculator

My email is edited out for the usual reasons!
Thanks

[sparkyminer]

Racing 1 don't put your e-mail adress up, BC will be able to get it from your registration, I've just been looking at that link, I';ll post it if i can find it again.

[sparkyminer]

Go into search and enter dutching. It's in a thread started by cliffbob, the link is in a post by Oldham.

[bigcumba]

Sorted - should be with you any second - plus I'll edit out your e-mail address - you'll attract spam by posting your e-mail here, so that's why we tend to clamp down on it.

[davefretwell]

Nice little system Coolboy,
I have just replied to a post stating the same about laying favourites.
When the Strongly Fancied (SF) and Fancied (F) selections are quite long odds against: 3/1, 7/2, 4/1 and above etc and not favourite, the SF & F selections are often the winners of the race or placed. I do not have anything to back this up just that I have been looking on a daily basis recently and it suprising how many winners and places come from these selections. Try laying the Favourite in these races as well as your system of dutching.
Sorry to have gone on to a different thread during this post but the Daily Mirror is very good for this type of system.
SF (Strongly Fancied), F (Fancied), BF (Beaten Favourite), EW (Each Way chance) is the code for anyone who does not understand the initials in the paper.
When I get chance I will post up a staking plan that may work with this type of selection procedure and many others. It may not be to everyones fancy though just an idea.

[MattR]

BigC.


Is there any chance you could email that dutching calculator to me as well? Many thanks!!

[bigcumba]

SHould be with you now Matt :)

[topman]

Coolboy,

Have been checking results now since 9th July and up EVERY day. Most days get a winner withing three races. At the moment basing my (theoretical) staking plan on being up €10. So dutch first race based on €10 profit. If that loses, second race looking for Loss + €10 etc. Not very scientific I know but still testing.

Couple of foreseeable problems - (1) Holding your nerve (2) On Staurday when you have 4-5 meetings it would be impossible to realistically manage so you would have to exclude meetings at the start of a day (3) Have my dutching running nicely on my Palm but woud you get chucked out of the betting shop if seen using one?

[icebreaker]

<edit> Deleted.

Regards,
Jack.

[bigcumba]

Now that's what I call useful info Jack! I wonder if someone will resurrect this system with your filters.... :)

[podtog]

Thanks indeed Jack, Im off out to get a copy right now.

[satch]

Topman,
Could you let me know how I can get the dutching on to a palm.
Thanks
Satch

[podtog]

Today there were 6 qualifiers ( wont use the banded races ).
1 NR
2 losers
3 winners at 11/2, 11/10 and 9/4, one of the losers came 2nd at 7/2.

Edit. There were 7 selections and another winner at 4/6.

[icebreaker]

Hello pod, how goes it,

Have just checked those results ........... could I repectfully suggest that you may have overlooked VODKA BLUE -- M.Rasen 2.05 (W 3/1).

Heh heh, yes I too have a hatred for those banded (Bandit?) races, but the KEMP 11.55 did throw up Bold Council ( a winner at 8/1).

Now, I need to say this -- I examined and paper-tested this system a few years ago. I decided NOT to persevere with real money. Reason was that though it was somewhat profitable the profits did not justify (for me) spending time and investment for what I considered an insufficient return. For instance, your results posted above show a profit of approx 0.66 points to level stakes. Not good enough for me. :wink .

Saying that, however, with any ordinary staking plan this method will produce reasonable LSP with tiny risk (due to small losing runs). Over the years I have distilled this idea into a (fairly) good system ....... it is the only systematic approach I now use. If you are interested I would be glad to expand further. But, I recognise you as a systemite yourself, so I reckon you can see where this is leading to :)

Respects,
Ice

[podtog]

Hi Icebreaker, I have been following this since last posting and I must say the results so far have been Excellent with some nice prices. One losing day of minus 1/2 a point to levels, the others have been good winning days and with the staking plan I,m looking at using this has made + 40 pts so far, will be posting my findings after one month.

[bigcumba]

Look forward to seeing what you come up with on this Podtog, sounds very promising already!

[ScotsDave]

Been having looking at this too this week Podtog, and as well as the winners, seems to also possibly suggest a lay system too - choosing the next horse up in the betting to lay (at under 10.5) gave 8 losing horses yesterday and two today (with two n/r) with no winners - hardly the 1000 horse test but maybe more than a fluke too, I hope :)

[podtog]

Has anybody got a copy of todays qualifiers please, Top spotted and marked fancied or strongly fancied in non handicaps only, Thursday. Thanks.

[inittowinit]

Hereford:
2:15 Assoon SF/spot(16 ran)
2:45 Bob's Lad SF/spot(4 ran)
Goodwood:
2:35 Binanti SF/spot(12 ran)
3:40 Polar way F/spot(11 ran)
4:50 Love Thirty SF/spot(10 ran)
5:20 Royal Lustre F/spot(10ran)
Newmarket:
1:15 Lost Soldier Three F/spot(7ran)
1:50 Baltic King f/spot(15ran)
2:25 Damson F/spot(7ran)
3:00 Kings Quay SF/spot(9ran)

[podtog]

Cheers Inittowinit, were these all Non Handicaps?

[inittowinit]

yes

[podtog]

Cheers mate, Terrible day.

[inittowinit]

Only on these selections!!...........

[icebreaker]

[icebreaker]

Incidentally, I've just noticed this minute that today's second qualifying race -- the 5 runner Newm 1.50 has thrown up PRIVATE CHARTER W 16/1.

Look lads, I'm not trying to justify or make a case for this ( on the previous page I've posted that this system was not for me -- the LSP was not high enough) :mover This was intended as just a distillation and more selective approach to the original thread regarding the analysis of the Mirror's SF/F selections.

Regards to all,
Jack C.

[inittowinit]

Hi Icebreaker,looking at the 2:15(Hereford) for instance,you have Sir brastias as a qualifier.If i understood the query correctly,then this would not be a qualifier as it was only marked F(fancied) and not spotformed aswell.
Someone enlighten me please?

[icebreaker]

Hello Innit,

Apologies for the delay in reply -- I was away for a dirty weekend (Bogsnorkling :D )

Hmm ............ the thread-starter (coolboy) posted regarding BOTH the SF and F in a race. Therefore there are TWO selections in each qualifying race. So, Sir Brasitas was a selection as was Assoom. It's up to you to make your pick between them. Or as the original poster said, dutch 'em.

Fridays selections (for illustration) were:

LING 1.30 L
NEMW 1.50 PRIVATE CHARTER W 16/1
LING 2.00 DANES CASTLE W 9/2
HEX 2.45 N/R
NEMW 3.00 L
HEX 3.55 GARY'S PIMPERNEL W 5/4
NEWM 4.10 L
LING 4.55 MEISSEN W 11/4




Saturday's results were very poor ;
L, 5/2, L, 2/5, L, L, 6/4, L, 11/4, L, L,

Regards,
Ice.

[icebreaker]

Sundays results were somewhat better:

KEL2.20 HERNANDO'S BOY W13/8
M.RAS 2.40 IT'S DEFINITE W 13/8
M.RAS 3.15 L
UTTOX4.15 SABY W 5/4
KEL 4.35 RIEVER'S MOON W 11/8
UTTOX4.45 MISS COSPECTOR W 4/1

[topman]

Satch,

Sorry for the delay - I simply designed a dutching spreadsheet and transferred to the Palm in the standard fashion via HotSync.

[Outside Chance]

[icebreaker]

Hello OC,

Very interesting. The way this thread is going, we'll get the strike-rate up to 99.99% before long :D .

Your refinement of this approach is very exciting indeed. I'll be keeping a watching brief over the next coupla weeks. But .............. I presume when you mention Novice races in NH you are including Novice chases also? Keeping in mind that around 50% or runners in Novice Chases fall before the finish, I would be slightly concerned about this aspect. However the system seems to be pulling in the profits for you, so apparently this doubt of mine is unfounded.

Thanks again for your contribution.

[Outside Chance]

[icebreaker]

[Outside Chance]

[Outside Chance]

[hayzee]

I'd always be hesitant betting against the fav/f2 in a maiden,12 runners or less,where they were a few points clear of the field in the betting.
But as always,it's easy to end up backfitting or even worse where systems collide,trying to decide which to bet or giving it a wide berth altogether.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

[hayzee]

Well IceB,with this DM system giving 2,my usual(as above) indicating a bet,system 20 which I'm following from A.N.Other place giving something else,looks like you would have been the only one to clean up with the lay!!!
I should have waited to see how it panned out,as that's where my ticket ended up.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

Yesterday was a no-bet day using Outside Chance's refinement of the system. Previous day was a loser (1 winner from the two races)

Todays bet has a winner in the first leg (HONEST ENDEAVOUR W 9/4) going down on either AMMONIAS or RAMBLING MINSTER in the Weth 4.45. Fingers crossed.

[icebreaker]

Well, AMMONIAS did win........ but at 1/2 :( . (RAMBLING MINSTER was a non-runner which is a bit of a bollox as that resulted in a ridiculously short price about Ammonias.) At least, in consolation, one of the doubles is returned as a stake-back.

I think I'll continue playing this idea with real money (four fiver doubles) ....it looks promising. So, in conclusion, today's P/L for OC's system is a plus 1.875 LSP

[hayzee]

IceB,
do you ever get the feeling that when you paper trade,the rules go with you,when the cash is on the line,things crop up that you never thought about......what a way to learn.
If the rules had stated 14 or less SAW,we'd all be money in this week,you can drive yerself crazy I guess,think I'll put the backfitting gremlin away and look and learn.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

[cochise]

Would I be right in saying todays races are TAUNTON....1.30......2.05, WORCESTER......2.25.....3.00.....3.35 ?, If not I have got it wrong lol

[icebreaker]

[cochise]

I agree, but as we have to take the picture overall, and still interested in this method, my brother used a similar system years ago on 2nd fav. and was quite succesful, 2 races and x doubles, but I cannot find a bookie on here who accepts 2nd favs. unless going to the shop itself, any ideas on this ?. cheers

[bigcumba]

I've certainly never heard of a bookie online that does 2nd faves, but no harm in asking a few of them maybe.

[gogga]

I have followed the posts on this system and have decided to try something new myself..I only use the Non-Handicap races and have decided to narrow the selections down by using only 1 selection per race which makes it difficult as the system uses the SF and F horses.

I use the racing post on line and look at the selection box to determine qualifiers. A horse only qualifies if it is the selected favorite in a non handicap by the Daily Mirror. I dont know how this extra filter will work but I am going to test it from tomorrow. I intend to use the qualifiers in 25p doubles.

Friday qualifiers...please treat as fun bets only..as this is on test:

Newmarket 1.40 Ingleton 2.15 Embossed
Brighton 2.15 Tadawul
Redcar 2.00 Archaelogy 4.20 Russian Cafe
5 Qualifiers - 10- 25p win doubles..Total cost £2.50

[icebreaker]

Much encouragement today with the two qualifying races (2.35 and 3.00) in the OC system winning, resulting in a 16/1 double. LSP for the week so far stands at 10 points.

[icebreaker]

[gogga]

On the Racingpost website on line..there is a selection box indicating all the selections by different newspapers..I used the tipster's horse on there..only one horse per race..but it was a bad day... Wanted to double check the selections in the newspaper but I am away on a course and didnt really get the time.

Seems to me this idea of mine is not going to work,,but I will give it a few more days..

[Outside Chance]

[Workshy]

And the selections are? :D

[Outside Chance]

[hayzee]

If only we knew tomorrows returns OC!!!!
Just a thought but if the sys is sound,what about tuning the betting(you just can't leave it can you h)mind fuddled with alcohol but(nogo online)how about something like a/c,b/d on one slip SAW,b/c,a/d SAW on another,anyhow maybe think about the idea at least it could cut down the downside maybe(the SAW angle?).
I'm going for a lie down.
hayzee.

[Outside Chance]

[gogga]

Does this system work on Sunday? Couldnt find the Daily Mirror in the shop....

[Workshy]

Sunday Mirror :)

[gogga]

In todays sunday mirror there are no SF and F selections...unless I need glasses :rolleyes:

[Outside Chance]

[hayzee]

Cheers OC for the extra info,
I know it sounds sad but I did have about a years back copies of the DM racing pages until about 6 months ago when I 'turfed' them out.
I've done the SAW bet on quite a few occasions,even putting the races in any time order doesn't seem to matter,they work from the top down,however I've never done the same races,using two selections from each,could be interesting,even if it only saves one losing bet from the three,although I guess this could add up.
Roll on Monday.
hayzee.

[Outside Chance]

[gogga]

Thanks OC. I bought the mirror this morning and got 2 qualifying races for today Plumton 3.40...(Escompteur won 2/7 and Castlemore NR) and the 5.50 at Pontefract..( Do it for reel and Monkey Madge)...Didnt take the Selling races into consideration and left Division 1 maiden races out to narrow it down to 2 races.

[Outside Chance]

This means that since the 6th October, we have had 7 doubles - 5 of them winning - giving us a total of 40 points profit including today.

Lets see what tomorrow throws up!

[gogga]

Yeah OC I missed the 4.50..was in a bit of a hurry this morning to get to work on time...a very exhausting weekend :D

So if I get the rules right it is any maiden race..doesn't matter which division?? Do you have any stats on the % SF and F winners??

I am toying with the idea of doing a tripple bet if there are 3 qualifying races :yikes: . which will unfortunately makes it 8 bets..So to make it worthwile I will only consider it if the SP's on the qualifiers are above 3/1

Any thoughts on this idea..??

[icebreaker]

Yes an excellent 16/1 double for me also on my 4 x fiver doubles! Like OC I also disregarded the Plumpton 3.40 as Escompteur was f/casted at 8/11.

A small local independent bookie that I use had Grand Option on offer pre-race at 8/1 and Doitforreel at 3's. Regretting I just took SP's!

I'm really impressed with this sytem. I've been following it real money since first posted a week ago, and I'm way, way ahead.

[Outside Chance]

[gogga]

Thanks OC..I have found 3 possible qualifying races today: Wolverhampton 2.20 (Selling) 2.50 W@Hampton and 3.00 Bath. (no 6 N/R)

[Outside Chance]

[gogga]

Thanks OC..Didnt thought we use Selling races, but always worth checking.. :D

Another Non Runner( Blue Azzure ) in the 1.50 at Wolves.. :geek

2 more qualifiers Captain Jonno 7/2 and Small Stakes 100/30

Any ideas

[Jonny2621]

How do you bet these Chaps ? Straight win bets on two horses per race..?

Jon


Gogga,

We never use Sellers so the 2.20 Wolves is out, leaving 2 qualifying races, if, as you say there is a NR in the 3.00 Bath.

The races are therefore 3.00 Bath - Tamatave & Rain Stops Play and 2.50 Wolverhampton - Chutney Mary & Sand Iron.

Fingers crossed!

[gogga]

I only started with this system this week. When there are 2 qualifying races we back the qualifiers in doubles for example :

Race 1

Horse a
Horse b

Race 2

Horce c
Horce d

Doubles:
A&C, A&D, B&C,B&D

There are other methods that people use as well...straight win bets on both horses if 3 qualifier races some people do doubles between 2 races and straight win bets on the third race.

I suggest that you read the post in this section Maggy to find information and methods/ systems you feel comfartable with..best of luck

[Outside Chance]

Because there is a Non-Runner in the 1.50, this means there are 3 qualifying races

[gogga]

OC...I made a wee little mistake with the qualifiers..eyesight not to good today :yikes:

Wolverhampton 1.50 N/R Blue Azzure therefore 12 horses left

SF- Captain Jonno 7/2
F- Revien 7/1

Not Small Stakes misread Ooo the BF behind the name

[icebreaker]

[Outside Chance]

[icebreaker]

[Outside Chance]

Like you say Icebreaker, it really is a matter of personal opinion whether you use races that become qualifiers due to non-runners - it all depends on whether you can be bothered to keep checking for withdrawals, and how much time you have on your hands.

[gogga]

Thanks for that info OC and Icebreaker. I understand the rules of this system now better. Only started with this system this week and I wasn't 2 sure how it works. Do you guys take straight win doubles or EW doubles if the Sp's are around 5/1??

[hayzee]

might have missed something,but are novice hurdles also out,just novice chases and maidens except sellers?
Personally,I've found with a lot of systems where x runners or< =qualifying runners,when you get into the area of n/r=qualifying race,it begins to change shape from a peach to a pear.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

[icebreaker]

[Outside Chance]

No bets today

[hayzee]

Thanks IceB,just thought there was one,last week,not selected so I assumed they were not in.
Thanks OC,for update.
hayzee.

[Outside Chance]

[icebreaker]

[Outside Chance]

[Outside Chance]

Well done Icebreaker - a 10-1 double!

[icebreaker]

[davefretwell]

For anyone who doesn't know, all Sunday race meetings are in the Saturday Daily Mirror Racing Post Extra suppliment with S.F, F and Spotform selections highlighted.

[podtog]

Looked at a few races this week and have only done races of 8 or less where I think there are 2 horses in the race where 1 should win on recent form etc and have had a couple of nice wins and a couple of losses, I will also use only 1 race if that is all that stands out on the day and roll it over to the next day, must add I have only been putting 1 pound bets on while I can build up a better picture.

[Outside Chance]

Well, we had another winning double yesterday, at odds of 4.75-1, so, following my rules, since the 6th October we have had 7 out of 9 winning doubles, and 49 points profit.

Today's double is cancelled as Carlisle has been abandoned.

[craghopper]

Well done on this system guys. It is shaping up really well.

Can the system keep it up. Let's hope so. If it does you may not need Win2Win!

cheers,

craghopper

[bigcumba]

[QUOTE=craghopper]If it does you may not need Win2Win!

/QUOTE]

Oi, don't be giving them ideas! :laugh

Well done though - looks very good so far guys!

[Outside Chance]

[bigcumba]

How do i claim my wine & lager??!!!!!

Dead easy mate - just go into your local Oddbins, grab the case of beer, tell the assistant Keith sent you - they'll know what you mean..... :wink

I must admit it's good to hear of a simple system that has worked over such a long time, too many look good for a wee while then go down the toilet.... as I know from experience!

[craghopper]

Thanks for the response, OC. I may add this to my list of systems to watch closely with aview to investing when the bank balance allows.

cheers,

craghopper

PS To Big C, Get back to work. You've got a mortgage to pay remember. And don't forget I know who you really are... :D

[bigcumba]

PS To Big C, Get back to work. You've got a mortgage to pay remember. And don't forget I know who you really are... :D

:laugh I'll send you a PM shortly, got a story for you.... :)

[podtog]

Today choosing races I thought at least 1 of the selections should win in races of no more than 8 runners gave 6 winning doubles, All winners were at -
Marcel 7/4.
Rigmarole 4/5.
Motivator 6/4.
Bibury flyer 3/1. Giving 6 combos and a nice profit.

I have chose Runaway Bishop and Phar city in the 2.35 Towcester.
Contraband and River City in the 2.15 Aintree for tommorrow.

[icebreaker]

[podtog]

Hi Icebreaker, these are my own choices and not the strict system you have posted, as there has been a fair bit of discussion on this system in this thread and a few ideas evolving, if you would like to keep your rules for your system to itself then maybe you should post a dedicated thread in the Systems Qualifiers thread.

[Outside Chance]

ooooh - Handbags!!!

Icebreaker, you are correct - there are no bets today using my system.
Potdog, I too am rather confused - How do you actually select your horses?

[bigcumba]

:laugh Handbags indeed! It's probably worth starting a new thread anyway as this one is getting a bit long - and whatever the exact rules are, it does seem to work pretty well, so keep up the good work!

[podtog]

OC, All I have been doing is looking at races of 8 or less runners where I feel 2 have the best chance off winning, more of a method than a system but I can post in a seperate thread any I would consider doing in future, no problem.

[podtog]

Icebraker, Sorry mate couldnt do the double, only managed a 3/1 first leg, oops sorry wrong thread...

[icebreaker]

OC, but I can post in a seperate thread any I would consider doing in future, no problem.

Seriously, Podtog, that would be a great idea ........... I would welcome that. We could well see a trend or aspect coming to light that would further distill the system. Like you say, this is all about developing ideas. No system has to be written in tablets of stone -- methods evolve and adapt to changing circumstances.

I look forward to seeing you selections if you do consider posting them. And, BTW, I do apologise if my previous post sounded like a "hissy fit" -- I genuinely WAS trying to understand on what criteria you were making your selections.

Regards and respect,
Ice.
:wiggle:

[gogga]

Hiya Guys

Please advise me if I selected the correct races for today: :geek

Wolverhampton:

2 qualifying races: 2.20 and 250 ( Banded) Selected race 2.20 then

Lingfield:

1.40 (Odds on Fav-qualifier- No go then)2.10 Division 2 - possible elimination?2.40 Selected race

2 qualifying races 2.20 Wol and 2.40 Lingfield :D

[icebreaker]

Hello Gogga,

My selected races (the two I've betted) are the Ling 2.10 and the Wolve 2.20. I notice that you have gone for the Ling 2.40 but that is a flat Novice race ....... and there are two perfectly sound Maiden races today that qualify. Saying that, the 2.40 does offer a good betting opportunity but I'm inclined to only use the Novice races when there are not enough Maiden races to make up the doubles. Best of luck with your bets.

[icebreaker]

Update:

Well, the 2.10 and the 2.20 gave me a 9/1 (approx) double. :D

[lost in space]

Any chance of a quick summary of the selection "rules" for this system as it stands today ?

[gogga]

Thanks Ice

I have decided to use the 2 maiden races and go dutch on the novice race ;fire ..so I also celebrate the 9/1 double :D

[bigcumba]

That's what I like to see guys - a bit of teamwork on this would be great as you have a pretty decent looking starting point already. Set up your own threads in here and post them daily, keeping running totals and it'll be very much appreciated! :) You never know - you may find yourselves up for the monthly prize if it goes well....

[Outside Chance]

Yes another winner today - about 9.5-1, bringing the total points profit to 55.5, with 8 winners out of 10.

Another good result, then.

[bigcumba]

Well done OC, nice results indeed!

[icebreaker]

:It's probably worth starting a new thread anyway as this one is getting a bit long - and whatever the exact rules are, it does seem to work pretty well,

Or even deleting the entire thread altogether :wink . The following is a very true story.......... and I'm still so stunned with it that I have to tell it!

On Saturday last I was in my local Ladbrokes. I approached the counter with my OC docket. The cashier ( who I know casually as I am a regular customer) looked at the docket, looked at me, looked back at the docket again, and hesitated. "Everything okay", I asked him. He told me that earlier someone had submitted the exact same docket (same four horses done in exactly the same doubles format) but to different stakes. Mine was 4 fiver doubles -- the other guy had done 4 x £25 doubles.

Is this weird or what? Am I being paranoid or is this just an unbelieveable coincidence? AFter all, this is a smallish city in a small non-UK country!! Is this someone who has been reading the forum and thread. What worries me is that Ladbrokes have an extremely well-organised intelligence system and something like this could well get back to headquarters. Prices in these races could contract.

Maybe sometimes, there is such a thing as too much publicity.

[Workshy]

Any reason why a few of OC's posts are now blank? :doh

[bigcumba]

That is strange Icebreaker - we do have a lot of guests visit the forum each day so I'd expect a few to be doing something that seems to be successful. That might be another reason for you all to do your own version of these - just to confuse the freeloaders! :)

[Outside Chance]

[bigcumba]

Rather than delete the whole thread, you could join us upstairs in the members area, and post them for the lucky few who know true value! :)

[Workshy]

:laugh lol

[Outside Chance]

well, lets not discuss the rules on this thread anymore then - only the results. I deleted my previous posts about 10 days ago to try to avoid just this, but i guess it was too late.

[Workshy]

Again, this supports my request for a hidden area (for non members whom are registered).

[Jonny2621]

Why not sign up as full members and post rules/selections in the mebers area along with some other great systems. I covered the months membership fee on todays bets alone.

Either way good luck with your system chaps :)
cheers
Jon

[bigcumba]

I covered the months membership fee on todays bets alone.


I think OFF paid for next years holiday on today's results upstairs..... :)

[Jonny2621]

I think OFF paid for next years holiday on today's results upstairs..... :)

Well he is a big shot matey, i'm small time by comparison! :D

[bigcumba]

Well he is a big shot matey, i'm small time by comparison! :D

This time next year Rodney.... :)

[Jonny2621]

This time next year Rodney.... :)

Luvvly jubbly!! :wink

[korkie]

Hey Guy's

There's nothing original about this Method, its been around for year's and to add insult to injury, someone else on another Forum is Posting the self same thing. No doubt he also lays claims to it.

Not a lot of point going "upstairs", unless its for divine intervention!

[bigcumba]

Hi Korkie,

divine intervention is just one of the benefits of joining us upstairs, but financially you would have access to the pro losers, more of Keith's systems, plus some other very profitable systems from some of the members :)

[korkie]

Point taken bc, regarding the benefit's of The Inner Sanctum!

Just trying to get people to wise up.

Don't they realise the Mirror's been around for decades, with thousand's upon thousand's of hopeful's all burning the 'Midnight Oil' in search of the 'Holy Grail'. Meaning whatever gets uncovered now, has been out there for year's!

[bigcumba]

Yeah, we have had a few Mirror based systems on here, and it has to be said that at the start of this long thread one of the guys did mention he had been running it for years, so like you say if it's been around that long it's likely to be common knowledge anyway, so posting it here is unlikely to be affecting the overall value of the prices. :)

[gogga]

I totally agree with you Big C..

If I look at todays cards I have a problem :geek because there are 4 qualifying races...

I have a variation of the system wich I follow when there are 4 qualifying races... :yikes: but it is still in the testing stages...used it only once and maybe I was just lucky because all 4 selections won Ooo and I backed them with multple doubles and tripples and a four way :D returned £200 for a £11 outlay..

Will see what happens today and if I get lucky again I will post it as a testing system.. :fizz

[icebreaker]

Gogga,
Would I be right in saying that there are 24 doubles using four races? Seems a large-ish outlay in the hope that all four are winners. If only two races are winners then that returns only ONE winning double.

Today's four races poses a conundrum for sure. I've gone for the two at Cheltenham on the basis of least amount of runners , and ignored the two races at Sedgefield. Returns will be low however (assuming they win!!) as the prices are short. It's a matter of personal choice, I guess. However, a strict interpretation of the rules would indicate that today should be a no-bet day. Best of luck with your bets.
Regards,
Ice.

[icebreaker]

!
Don't they realise the Mirror's been around for decades, with thousand's upon thousand's of hopeful's all burning the 'Midnight Oil' in search of the 'Holy Grail'. Meaning whatever gets uncovered now, has been out there for year's!
This is just ridiculous, plain and simple. Racing has been in existence since the time of Charles 1st .............. does that mean that nothing new or that no "edge" has been discovered since the 16th century? New developments in "beating the book" are being recorded more often than you think ........ even more so in the modern age than in earlier times.

You're "just trying to get people to wise up", yeah? Being a follower of racing and having a keen interest in racing systems for thirty years I reckon I've forgotten more about the "game" than you have learnt...... I don't need you to clue me up. And if you were aware of OUTSIDE CHANCE's system all along, why didn't you post to the thread instead of now coming on all superior and flinging insults around. I notice you've been lurking on this forum since August 2003 with four posts to date. Be constructive in your comments instead of just knocking, and maybe then we would all learn something.

Ta.

[gogga]

Thanks for that input Ice. :) .. Yeah today is a no bet following OC's system rules and it is madness to play 24 doubles on the off chance that you will have 6 winning doubles...I agree with that!!

I am working on an idea :fizz ... a system that can be used when there are 3 to 4 qualifying races using only 1 horse per qualifying race :yikes: ...but it is still in the testing stages on paper and with small stakes (20p) per bet.

If this system works..you will have the following bets:

In 3 qualifying races : 3 doubles and 1 tripple (Total outlay-£4..)
In 4 qualifying races : 6 doubles: 4 tripples and 1 Four fold (total outlay £11)

[korkie]

Icebreaker, there is nothing ridiculous in what I'm claiming or saying. You claim to have over thirty years racing experiance and your still searching for that "Magic" formula! What I stated was Fact. Pure and simple!

In answer to your question "why did'nt I post it up"? Dead simple, its been out there that long anybody with an interest in System's, would and should have been aware of it.

Regarding my four previous Post's. They were in fact helpful, factual and constructive and since when has visiting (lurking) message boards and reading the contents, been so contentious?

As to new developments and the modern age, I happen to live in it and if I dare say so, profit from it. If you get my drift!

[icebreaker]

You claim to have over thirty years racing experiance and your still searching for that "Magic" formula! What I stated was Fact.
So it's a FACT that there is nothing new to be discovered? Or never will be discovered? Because that's exactly what your're saying -- Whatever gets uncovered now, has been out there for years (your words). If you believe that, then, fair enough. I'm not going to argue with you about it.


In answer to your question "why did'nt I post it up"? Dead simple, its been out there that long anybody with an interest in System's, would and should have been aware of it. I wasn't! Yes, I was familiar with the significance of the SF and F with topspot but I hadn't come across the refinement that OUTSIDE CHANCE applied. You were, apparently, so again, why didn't you post it instead of assuming that everyone else knew. Re-reading the five full pages of the thread it would appear to me that NOBODY was aware of it!



since when has visiting (lurking) message boards and reading the contents, been so contentious?
I never suggested that perusing message boards was a "bad thing". Only when a person's first post on a topic is to belittle everything that went before, and then tell us that he "knew all about it" anyway. I mean, why bother?

[Outside Chance]

I quite agree Ice.

Well, today was a no bet day for me - and just as well looking at the results with only 2 out of 4 coming in. Did anybody win anything today?

Gogga, with 3 qualifying races I work this out as needing 12 doubles, not 3. With only 2 races you need 4 doubles, so with 3 races surely it is 12 - unless you are doing something different (?)

Ta

[gogga]

OC this system of mine is still under test..if there are 3 qualifying races I select only the spotted horse from the SF and F selections...which result in half the doubles. I play 3 multiple doubles and 1 tripple if 3 qualifying races or 6 doubles, 4 tripples and 1 EW 4 fold if 4 qualifying races. The idea behind it is that the spotted horse have a faster TS.

I only have done it twice in the last 2 weeks..the first time all 4 horse won..which was a nice bonus!! Today I missed the 2.00 at Cheltenham and used only 3 races..2 of the 3 won ...double approximately 15/1.

I still use the same selection criteria that you use. If only 2 qualifying races I follow your system.

[Outside Chance]

aaaah gotcha. Well it certainly sounds promising so far - good luck.

[gogga]

Thanks OC. I note that there are 4 qualifying races today, one being a beginners chase. Using your filters does that race count??

I know that you have a lot of experience with this system idea of yours and I would greatly appreciate any input from you on my variation( 3/4 qualifying races) of the system.

[Outside Chance]

Gogga, I have found that the most profitable way of doing it is just using days when there are two qualifying races. I have, of course, looked into ways that it can be used when there are 3 or 4 races, but have never found a method that provides such a high strike rate as when there are just 2 races. I too looked at doing triples etc. when there are 3 races, and although these will make profits, they will not win as often as just sticking to doubles using 2 races.

It really depends on how you prefer to bet. My personal preference is to have a bit of patience, and just wait until the right opportunity arises to bet - i know then that i have about an 80% chance of it winning (strike rate with doubles). This cuts out longer losing runs, and higher expenditures on bets - obviously with triples etc. you need to spend more on your bets.

I did find though, that filtering the races down even further did not seem to make much of a difference to the results i.e. getting rid of the race with the most runners or shortest SP favourite etc. etc. If there are 3 races using my rules, then from my point of view there are three races - and i will not bet. Also, filtering the horses down within the qualifying races (i.e. using JUST the SF or JUST the F) did not have much of an impact, although the horse with SF and Spot did win about 10% more often than the horse with F and Spot.

Like I say, I have looked into ways that I can bet more often using this system, but found that my losing runs went up and my strike rate went down, except of course by soley betting when 2 qualifying races arise - hence this is the only time i bet. I personally do not like long losing runs, even if i come out on top at the end of it. A high strike rate is the main factor for me when using a system, and this is the only system that i know of that provides both such a high strike rate AND good value in the bets. Indeed, this is the only method I use to bet on horses. I am not really a fan of these systems that give a 40% strike rate, or something like that - it's just personal preference, but i prefer to win much more often than i lose - this just suits my style of betting more. It can of course get fairly frustrating at times, waiting for the right day to come, but it pays off in the end.

If you can find a way to incorporate an extra race - or even an extra two races - without compromising the strike rate then you've done better than me, and i would of course be very interested to hear your methods - Good luck!

[hayzee]

What a great post OC,
hope you're up for a bottle or can of something!
I must admit,the waiting for a betting opportunity,when everything seems to have slotted into place,whether you are using a system/s or "method",can stretch yer patience a bit at times,I've nearly had to sew me pockets up on occasions,after waiting ages,not to have a fiver on the next fav!
However I'm sure we all have our foibles,mostly,just wish my lessons hadn't cost so much.
hayzee.

[Outside Chance]

[craghopper]

I did the same as OC and got a winner at around 11/1!

More than made up for my losses on the pro losers. :D

cheers,

craghopper

[Outside Chance]

Ha ha, sounds a bit nerveracking for my liking mate! Another winner today, this time at 12-1 so: - 9 winners out of 11 with the profit now at 64.5 points. Not bad really.

[icebreaker]

[craghopper]

What about the 145 and 250? Were they not also possibles?

cheers,

craghopper

[Outside Chance]

There was actually no bet today - the 1.30 was odds on, so this could be disregarded, but the other three were not, so this left 3 qualifying races, therefore no bet (by my rules, anyway)

[craghopper]

What was wrong with the 145 and 250, OC? Are maiden hurdles not allowed?

[icebreaker]

[gogga]

Hi There guys

I am currently in Amsterdam and I was wondering if there are any qualifying races today?

[Workshy]

Never bet when stoned to the bone mate :D

[bigcumba]

Gogga, shouldn't you be indulging in a bit of Dutching your bets today ? :geek

[gogga]

Well well guys..I am dutching :yikes: my bets today....Decided to just follow Keith's qualifiers..dont have lost of time..too much to do :censored:

[icebreaker]

I am currently in Amsterdam and I was wondering if there are any qualifying races today?

Hello Gogga,
Two qualifying races, but an unsuccessful double. First leg lost while second leg won.

[gogga]

Thanks Ice....any for Sunday??

[Outside Chance]

[gogga]

Cheers mate...much appreciated :)

[gogga]

Thanks for the info OC..Nice winning double there... :D :wiggle: Decided to play a double on betfair.. Paid about 42/1

[craghopper]

[bigcumba]

Hi Craig, basically a double on Betfair has to be done manually - do the first bet, then take all the winnings plus stake on to the second horse. 42/1 sounds pretty good though compared to 5 ish

[bigcumba]

Best I can see would have been around 8.7/1, taking 2.2 and 4.4 as around the best odds available om Betfair - checked these on Oddschecker.

[craghopper]

[bigcumba]

That's OK mate, it took me about 2 years to figure it out myself! :geek

[icebreaker]

[gogga]

Hiya All. I do have to apologise..I left my brain in Amsterdam ::swear :D My profit on that double was £ 42. Double paid approximately 7.75/1 if it was 42/1 I would have been in racing heaven :geek

[craghopper]

Attention Outside Chance And Icebreaker:

:waver :waver :waver :waver :waver

I want to send you both a message. I can't send you personal messages as you are not members but Big C (one of the forum moderators) says he can pass on a message if that is OK with you.

Please make a post saying whether it is OK and he will relay it to you. I can't post my own email address as it is against the rules and will be removed.

cheers,

craghopper

[bigcumba]

If you 2 can post here today I'll do the e-mail swap for you tonight. :)

[icebreaker]

Certainly, Craghopper ............... go right ahead.

Apologies for not being available via PM ............. sometimes I feel like the "only gay in the village" (Little Britain) not being a full member of the W2W racing club. :(

[craghopper]

Thanks, Icebreaker. Sorry you feel left out!

I think you need to give your email address to Big Cumba (see his message) and he will either forward it on to me or then relay a message from me to you.

cheers,

craghopper

[bigcumba]

both your e-mail addresses sent out.... :)

[Outside Chance]

Yes, please feel free to send me the message as well. Cheers.

[hayzee]

As this seems to have gone underground now,just a big thank you to all those who have made it so interesting and rewarding,OC especially,you're a star.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

Yep, him is the man. :clp

[gogga]

Hallo Ice and Oc..what happened to ur posts?? Very Silent..indeed

[Workshy]

I think they think value will go. Exchanges are good for combating that :doh

[GLENCROFT]

replying to the question about 5 pages back !


Stan James takes bets on 2nd faves


I agree, but as we have to take the picture overall, and still interested in this method, my brother used a similar system years ago on 2nd fav. and was quite succesful, 2 races and x doubles, but I cannot find a bookie on here who accepts 2nd favs. unless going to the shop itself, any ideas on this ?. cheers

[hayzee]

DM system,
haven't been able to check this for the past 3 weeks,can anyone let me know if it has shown a profit over this period,no details necessary,yes or no would be appreciated.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

Hello hayzee,

In the absence of other responses, may I offer this reply to your query?

The problem is ............. there is no accurately specific answer. Different folk have tweaked it to their own preferences. The DM is more a method than a system -- a kind of pick'n'choose selection process. For instance,a strict interpretation of OUTSIDE CHANCE's rules would limit you to only those days when there are 2 (and only 2) qualifying races. I often have a bet when there are 3 races per day. Also, I would also bet on maiden hurdles whereas OC stipulates novice hurdles only. So, it is a kind of personal thing. Oh, and I ignore all qualifying races on the A/W!!!

Anyway, the system is working very nicely for me. It is paying for my drinks. Yesterdays qualifying races (strictly according to OC's rules) resulted in:
WIND 12.50 ....... W 3/1
WIND 1.25 ....... .L
WARW 1.30 ...... W 11/8
NEWC 1.45 ........ W 15/8
WARW 2.05 ..... W 2/1

No help I know, and it doesn't answer your question ..................

[hayzee]

Many thanks IceB.
Noticed how many Favs were showing up,fiddled,(as you do)and added a double filter type system plus some other criteria.
It's taken a lot of my time,but I really felt I was on to something.
I've now got 2 systems,over 3 weeks,the base,(plus betting plan)has produced 14 points profit,the double filter has produced the following straight bets,13/8 4/1j 8/11 8/11 7/2j 15/8 L.
Don't normally do too much betting 2 weeks before or after the holiday period,but this is fun,I'll give it another few weeks and try to post it so those who have helped can benefit.

[icebreaker]

Kewl, hayzee ..........

I look forward to that. Keep us posted, yeah?

[hayzee]

No probs IceB.
When I was about 19,earning a living but in a mundane job,two guys who were not Del Boys or chancers were planning to leave the company,they'd been betting for sometime,so successfully that the plan was to leave 'work' and replace the pay packet with profits from betting.
Well they did it,two bets a week and the prices were never more than 7/4(this much I found out,but not a lot more!).
I've never been a greedy type and rarely envious,but I've got to tell you this sparked an interest that I've never lost,my father who would bet on anything showed me indirectly how not to go about the game,but I'd sure be satisfied with the 'two bets a week',as with these guys they probably wouldn't all win,but enough to give the two fingered salute to the boss.
Anyhow I'm rambling,well it's almost Christmas...........
I've checked stats and although the horses don't know they're fav,or one race result has no bearing on another,being a completely seperate event,patterns do occur,I'm hoping that the famous 'long run' is running for us,(the double filter makes me feel better though!).
It's more than that,but I could deal with just the 'two bets a week'!
hayzee.
hayzee

[craghopper]

Glad to see this thread's still alive. I followed this system loosely during Oct/Nov but not since. I wanted to check it out really as I couldn't quite believe the success it had when it was first posted. The rule to only bet when there were two qualifying races in one day troubled me as it was not a logical filter (except in so far as it made chosing the doubles easy). SO I too looked at using the system when there were more than 2 qualifiers.

In November I found the qualifying races had a win rate of only 51% on turf and 44% on the all weather - far below the 80-90% originally claimed. Using these figures you can extrapolate an average strike rate for doubles of 26% (51% of 51%) and 19% (44% of 44). Of course, if the odds were right good profits could still be made and perhaps this was a bad time for the DM boys or these sorts of races but it didn;t seem to be the golden egg I first thought (I guess we all know that feeling!?).

I would certainly be interested in any ideas to refine the system.

Merry Xmas and a profitable New Year,

craghopper

[hayzee]

Ice B,
added results,L 6/4 2/1 5/2j.
Glad to get over the holiday period,my thoughts are that if a system can survive this(almost like us so called higher animals)then it can survive anything.
At the end of week 5 a bet of 10% of the bank would have > doubled it.
The standard system(with simple staking system)without the extra filter showed a profit of 23.25 points.
This week so far,a 5/2j,(bet)a 1/1 winner today(no bet)means a bet could be on for tomorrow.
How can I mail you and anyone else who believes in the little red hen.
hayzee.

[craghopper]

Hayzee
I can be contacted on craig@wibblewibbleflibbertyboo.com

cheers,

craghopper

That ought to confuse the spammers!

[hayzee]

will be in contact Crag,suggest you delete your mail address in case the silly people get it.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

Hello Hayzee, mate,

Look, I'm kinda reluctant to post up personal e-mail addy's on here (or anywhere on the WWW) for reasons that I'm sure you will understand. And, I honestly think anyway, that this topic has been done to death! I'm grateful to Outside C for bringing it to my attention ......... I am following it since to good profit on a weekly basis, but I'm not convinced that discussing it further in private or in public will add any benefit. Those that DID follow the original discussion from the outset would have a good grasp of the principles of the system.

What I would be most interested in, tho', would be in hearing was anybody successful in filtering the selections down to ONE in the selected races. I have looked at SF alone (with topspot) -- a bit promising when Distance and SF, or Distance and Beaten Favourite rogether with SF.

Regards to all,
Ice.

[hayzee]

Hi IceB,
all the good things you wish yourself for 2005,only more some.
Unfortunately,when I was sidetracked with my own observations sparked off by the original DM system,I haven't kept any records or researched it at all.
The system I've developed doesn't use the DM,SF/F at all.
I sent a copy,and as many instructions and info to CragH as poss,together with an update today.
I can appreciate you not wanting the Spam merchants etc,hooking your mail address,perhaps CragH could forward these to W2W and it could be forwarded to you.
The next week is fairly hectic for me,but if no info by then let me know and I'll write it out again,it may be of interest.
hayzee.

[icebreaker]

Many thanks for that, Hayzee.

I do have Craghoppers e-mail address. I'l be getting in touch with him shortly re the above.

[youngun]

Hey,So it seems people had their own little ideas of how the system worked.

I dont really want to go through all the threads, but at the end of the day wat was the end result of the system ???
Was it a profit or what?

what are the criteria for the system, Thanks

[Workshy]

I doubt anyone will tell you Youngun, its like a cliqúe little secret I think Ooo

[youngun]

So is nobody going to let anybody know about the rules for this system ????
I thought everybody was supposed to help each othewr on this forum???
Surely one of the forum managers can trace up all the deleted messages and let it be known what the criteria for the system was.

[e55exboi]

They do generally but you get moaned at if you dont match their 4536 IQ levels!

[youngun]

So essex i take it you dont know the system?

Well maybe bigcumba could give out the system ?
Considering he would have it im sure and everybody should be entitled to view it ?????

[coolboy]

cant you tell me

[e55exboi]

Why dont u look at the beginning of the thread, the rules are there :doh

[coolboy]

Why dont u look at the beginning of the thread, the rules are there :doh

i was onlying jokeing i the one who put it up

[bigcumba]

Original rules as posted by Coolboy :)

Daily Mirror System

Each Day Look In The Mirror For Races Upto 12 Runers No odds Ons 1/5
from 4/5 is ok
Pick The Ones Which Are Sf And F In Each Race And Put Then In A Dutch Bet You Get A Lot Of Winners With This Systems Or You Can Do To £1 Stakes.

[e55exboi]

i was onlying jokeing i the one who put it up
I know i was referring to Young Un

[hayzee]

Crag, Ice B,
The,if you go semi public or post it,it all goes a funny shape gremlin has hit this.
Hope those that have followed my other system are paper trading.
I am still well money in but there again I've been doing it from the start.
The only other way I've looked at it is using the double filtered picks and the retirement staking plan,this could still be useful.
hayzee.