Anyone Know This System?

[e55exboi]

Hi everyone im new to this site. I been searching for the ultimate system for a while now and have been curious about ones for sale on ebay, its so easy to get sucked in by wot they sell i just havent been able to help myself paying small money for a few systems. I got one recently which claims 80% strike rate, the problem being only a few qualifiers pop up a week. It claims out of 625 selections over 3 years 508 are winners well thats about 14 out of 17 a month! It goes like this: First a horse has to have won its last 2 races the last one being no more than 7 days ago.8 or more and forget it! Next the horse has to have won course AND distance in its time. Finally there must be no other horses in the race that have won last time out. Well i read this system yesterday so im currenly monitoring it for few or months. So far no horses have even qualified but the closest was mith hill today at lingfield the only thing making it fail to qualify being that last race was 22 days ago, it won 5/2. So has anyone heard of it and does it sound plausible or just a rip off?

[Outside Chance]

I saw a system exactly the same, excluding the rule about no other horse having won last time out, and it was crap - to be fair though i didn't monitor it for very long.

[Workshy]

I'd say rip off without checking it out.

[Win2Win]

This sounds like Clive Holt's system he sells, or similar, and is so well known now it no longer shows a profit.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Consider this - for the price you pay for these 'Mickey Mouse' systems, you could join Win2Win for the first month and get several PROVEN systems.

The system you describe is one of the oldest systems going and they have just added a few extra rules. The 'origanal' system was actually 'won last time out within 4 days'. The reasoning behind this is that when a horse 'hits form', it rarely lasts and the trainer tries to make the most of it.

[e55exboi]

So who is the moderator of this site id like to ask a few questions?

[bigcumba]

So who is the moderator of this site id like to ask a few questions?

Keith is the boss, plus there are something like 7 of us mods around at various times, so I'm sure one of us will have the answers to any questions you care to throw at us.....

[e55exboi]

Oh rite. For a start all the systems results have a figure at the top presumably to signify profit it makes eg Decent Odds system is £1028.77 Exactly over how much stake money is this a profit for and over how long are these systems profited at? The members jockey trainer one is £3164.90. Also if youve shown the profit of a system by points instead of pounds then how do you work that one out. eg top 2 members systems is 281 pts? I know i sound dumb and i should know this as ive been betting for years :rolleyes: Also which system can you tell me has the shortest losing runs that u know of? I want to employ the chase ya losses system for a gauranteed same profit everyday, i know its dangerous, but at a profit requirement percentage 1% or 0.5% i think i can safely say id be ok in identifying which favourites were unworthy, although it is a very scarey system. I started off recently with £30 on betfair and was betting £2 £3 and £4s on american faves knowing sod all about them and got lucky on a few other results and got upto £170 in a week or so, then decided right now to discipline myself and bet only on well studied english horses. Well after losing down to about £90 i stupidly dumped £30 on fulham to beat crystal palace (bad idea) then blew the rest on an american odds on which got blown out but followed english racing the next day and realsied had i been patient i would have regained my losses in first few races ::swear

[Win2Win]

EVERY result is to a realistic £10

The JTS is over 300pts up since April

1pt is eqaul in theory to £10

The higher the SR, the shorter the losing runs, but the lower the ROI%

Chase your losses systems ALWAYS go broke in the end, every member on here has tried it at some point, and will verify that.

If you don't have an edge over everyone else. regardless of sport, don't bet on it. You'll lose long term.

Does that help? :)

[bigcumba]

I'll totally agree about the loss chasing. It won't work no matter how good the system is. As someone pointed out earlier even tossing a coin can go 15 heads or tails in a row.... try chasing losses betting on that! I lost a lot of money doing that sort of staking - I learned the hard way, and would never ever bet like that again, even with someone elses money!

[Workshy]

Yep, I tried chasing once, dont go down that road, its a long and losing one.

[e55exboi]

Maths was never my strong point. So at 300pts if my stakes were £100 per horse id be in profit £3000?

[Workshy]

30,000 at 100 per qualifier.

[thewebmaster]

but with potential losing runs of 50,can you really afford and is it logical to lose yourself £5000 waiting for the winner, if i were you i'd run with £10 stakes unless you're really rich and can afford that £5000 dead money at any one point? :rolleyes: :wink

or try the pro losers always a successful idea

[e55exboi]

And how long is that 300pts been over? Since which month/year? And thats it i wont hassle u any more :)

[bigcumba]

I think it's been since the start of this year's flat season, if I'm wrong, I'm sure Keith will correct me :)

[Steven Gerrard]

It is a bad thing to do chasing your losses. Chasing your losses only makes you lose more and more, and it ends up you going away unhappy. If you lose quite a lot, it usually works best to walk away. Go out while you have at least some money in your pocket. Before going to a bookies, it is best checking how much money you have, and designate how much your going to spend, and once you hit that limit, and you have nothing to show, walk away. Your out of luck, and that is not going to change if you spend more and more. It ends up in disaster and your out of pocket.

[bigcumba]

Good advice Steven :)

[e55exboi]

but with potential losing runs of 50,can you really afford and is it logical to lose yourself £5000 waiting for the winner, if i were you i'd run with £10 stakes unless you're really rich and can afford that £5000 dead money at any one point?

or try the pro losers always a successful idea
Is 50 the highest losing run then?!?! Blimey. Well im thinking of allocating £5000 to one system and £5000 to another or just the full £10k to the best system. The jt system looks bloody lucky to have been bailed out of long losing runs with a perfectly timed high odds winner so seems a bit risky! I guess the laying system would probly be the better but im sure id disagree with many and have to lay horses id rather back lol! I read in racing post other week one guy reckons he makes loads laying horses, watches every race and can tell early if his lay is going to win so backs it at last minute to make up for loss. Must have one hell of an eye thats all i can say bout that!

[Steven Gerrard]

What also is my other piece of advice, if you have a big win, and you fancy another bet, don't. Walk away, go out with the profits, because you may end up giving it back, even if you only lose a pound. You might end up trying to chase that pound, and it becomes 2 pound until it becomes 0 profit for you. I have been there myself, and it wasn't nice. I had a 33/1 winner, i ended up giving at least £10 of that back. I could of walked away with £33 and come back the next day when i may of been able to pick another winner. Since i could of put some of that money away, if you have money and your next to a bookies, your temptation to go in and try your luck becomes harder to deal with and end up going in. So now, if i win money depending on how much i win i walk out. Best to show a profit, than showing losses.

[bigcumba]

There are a lot of guys making claims like that - just check out the Betfair forums! Most of them are talking through their :butthead: We reckon that the majority of folk making a good profit from laying are those on here doing the pro losers. With that size of bank you have a great starting point to do both the JTS and the lays and within a year you could be making enough to live comfortably off that income alone. :)

[e55exboi]

Ye but i work so i cant be at home to put the selections on. Or are the selections for the systems revealed the night before? Also while on that subject, if you earn a living from this, do you have to end up paying earnings tax when the law see youve got loadsa money going into your bank?

[bigcumba]

If you're working it makes things a bit more difficult - if you can't get access at lunchtime at an internet cafe, or using a laptop and mobile connect card then it'll be tough. Keith doesn't put the info online till around noon most days

[e55exboi]

Only option is to go on the dole then :D

[bigcumba]

You won't be the only one on here doing just that!

[Workshy]

Who else?!! Tell tell tell. :)

[Win2Win]

Win2Win=The JTS is over 300pts up since April :doh

The JTS is research of years of data, and does not come up with 'lucky' winners to offset the losses. Firstly, their aren't any losses to negate, and secondly we already know the potential ROI% in advance.

TWM is not a pro, and far from, and should not really be giving advice to others until he can stop losing himself. The JTS has a SR of around 15%, but has not yet had a losing run of 50. You can get that with the toss of a coin, it's all down to how you handle stats.

Full site results, inclucing members JTS, are under the 'Results' header in the left hand menu of the main site.

[e55exboi]

So win2win administrator, could you get away with 10% of bank stakes on the jts or only 5%? Dont worry i more than likely will become a memeber but i just want to find out as much as i can before doing so. It sounds to me as though a 5k bank on jts and a 5k bank on pro losers would allow me straight away take £300 a week out to live off

[Workshy]

:yikes: SLOW DOWN Boi!

JTS's hold big losing runs so 5% (let alone 10%!) of bank would be very dangerous!

And to give up work using a 10k bank loan to try and make £300 'gambling' a week would be even more dangerous.

Read around, get all the info you need, read it over several times so you understand EXACTLY what you have to commit and the best way to do it etc etc

If you're seriously considering using a bank loan to gamble then atleast play safe.

Initially you should test the water, maybe using a £200 lay bank to learn the process's, trends, how best you can use the info etc

Then once comfortable (take your time!), set your bank at £5,000 and go only 2% liability (£100) as to be safe (you're betting with money that isnt yours!).

Finally, with the JTS' using a £5,000 bank I'd personally look to go £20 a qualifier and no more until you're confident in what you're doing and you've boosted your initial £10k

Basically, dont be hastey, dont try to cut corners, dont think you're going to give up work next week etc

:)

[e55exboi]

Thats exactly wot im doing. Researching it all. Well i dont see why i need to test the water if these systems are already proven, i just blindly bet on the horses given like win2win says to. As far as percentage to bet or lay goes, that depends on how many bets there a day. On average how many tips are given a week?

[presto]

i would listen to workshy on this one, start small - then work up to bigger stakes. as nothing is guaranteed to go on forever, take the lays for example you say you would be willing to just lump in with a £10k bank. well what if you did that and within 2 weeks that £10k was £5k, could you cope with that loss???? i know i can as the same thing happened to me over the last two weeks. also by starting small and building up you learn the tricks, and get the diciplin you need to be sucessfull.

[craghopper]

Wise words, Workshy.

:yikes: :yikes: SLOW DOWN :yikes: :yikes:

There are a few iron laws of gambling and one most of us have learnt to our cost is that the faster you try to make money from it the more certain you will fail.

Believe me, I've done it and lost thousands I could not afford to lose. :( :( Painful lessons which you too will surely learn unless you play it safe, stick to the rules and listen to the advice of people who've been there and know what they are talking about.

Play with small stakes first (ie £1-3). This will help you learn the process, enjoy the thrill of winning and the pain of losing but without it really mattering. Before you start playing with significant money be absolutely certain you understand the system and equally important the staking plan. If you do not, you can be sure that experience will teach you and your bank will vanish.

As I think Keith (forum manager) said recently, making a staking system to increase profits is easy but it is a total waste of time if it does not protect you from the losing runs which happen with all systems. So number one rule with staking systems is will it prevent your bank from disappearing when you lose, NOT how much money will it make me (as I stupidly used to think).

I've said enough. I'm no expert compared to many on here but I'm learning and quick. Don't make the mistake I made and learn by losing your cash.

Be patient and you will get there in the end,

craghopper

PS Remember, it is better to travel slowly and arrive than to go too fast and crash on the way.

PPS Got a bit carried away with the bold text! :D

[e55exboi]

Sure i been there too, i spent thousands over last few years. this is why im asking someone else to do all the work for me, keiths systems are proven i dont have to experiment cos im not selecting the horse or stake plan, hes doing it for us. I wouldnt even dare go higher than 2% on any system i doubt anyway :horse http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=0&forumid=12#

[tophatter]

The reason you should never start anything with a huge bank is to allow yourself a learning curve. The bigger the starting bank the bigger the chance you will blow out. Ive seen many people crack, it all sounds easy on paper but with a big starting bank when you have a bad run you are actually losing money and not profits already accrued. Could you really start a system with a big bank and lose several grand and not feel it? What if you bust the bank? it can happen and with a small bank you can easily start again. Would you be able to fish out that kind of dough again? Losing profit is hard enough to take, "buying" into a bank with a lot of hard earned and seeing it drain away during a slump would test even the hardest bitten punter

[e55exboi]

The longest losing run on jts is 29 so thats £2900 lost or £5800 at 2%. Compared to chase ya losses i was doing thats alot less scarier! I quite like look of media fc whatever that one is, has far more regular winners

[presto]

if you are playing with large stakes (£100), then there is no way you can place a bet that big on a longshot (50+ odds) IMO. and you will have to settle for lower odd's, thus lower profit. however i havn't followed this system for a whils - so could be wrong.

[presto]

and by the way i lost my bank on the JTS. when i tried it @ 2% base bet. fortunately it was a £500 bank not £10k. but my bank only lasted 2 months, in which time i had a loosing streak of 28!

when you set up a betting bank you must be prepared to lose it. (more than once if neccesary). as it takes quite a long time for a bank to get fully established.

[Win2Win]

...and don't think you know better than me :)

5% on any system with a 15% SR will bust your ass in no time. Try playing around with false data on a spreadsheet.

Why £10K? TH and others have turned £200 into £10K in 2 years, so £2000 could be £100K+ in the same time period, but that involves not lowering the risk from your initial bank.

You need to prove you know what your doing for around 2 years before packing the job in, as if you get it worng, which you will do in 'learning' mode, you can find you've lost your bank, you're out of a job, and 10K in debt.

Most member's on here starts with £100 or £200 banks, even I start with £500 on a new system, as I enjoy builiding them up. Any higher than that is putting to much risk in the pot.

As you build up the bank, you make less costly errors, gain confidence, and can then build more safety into the bank for the bad runs.

[mathare]

The other thing no-one has mentioned is that if you take out a £10k loan for gambling with you need to make bigger profits than someone who has £10k of their own to gamble with because you have to make repayments on that loan.

A poor month could see you unable to make the repayments and then you are in trouble.

I think borrowing £10k for a gamble is a BAD idea personally

[Jonny2621]

Borrow 10 grand to gamble with ? Call the men in white coats..... :yikes:

Surely most basic rule is " Dont gamble with money you can't afford to lose"

Dont go there chum...
Jon

[e55exboi]

[QUOTE=Win2Win]...and don't think you know better than me :)

5% on any system with a 15% SR will bust your ass in no time. Try playing around with false data on a spreadsheet.

Why £10K? TH and others have turned £200 into £10K in 2 years, so £2000 could be £100K+ in the same time period, but that involves not lowering the risk from your initial bank.

You need to prove you know what your doing for around 2 years before packing the job in....

Why do i need to prove i know what im doing when id be doing exactly what your telling me to do? :doh

[Sherlock]

No offence but I think you are being rude and disrespectful to the people who have the experience and the data to back it up. If you think you know better than win2win either keep it to yourself and back to the stakes you want or go somewhere else. You seem to ask questions but don't want to take any notice of the replies.
Their advice is sound and proven. The last few days on the prolays show what fluctuations are possible.
As for borrowing 10,000 to gamble with...well I hope it works out, but it doesn't sound like you will have the patience!
As I say no offence.

[Steven Gerrard]

You take a loan of 10k, you pack your job in, and you lose it all on gambling, don't expect the dole money to pay the repayments because then your going to be starving and maybe homeless until you get it paid off.

[Win2Win]

Pyschology of your mind is all part of pro-gambling. I can only give you the fire power to make money, yourself is the weapon, and only you can control that.

[e55exboi]

No offence but I think you are being rude and disrespectful to the people who have the experience and the data to back it up. If you think you know better than win2win either keep it to yourself and back to the stakes you want or go somewhere else. You seem to ask questions but don't want to take any notice of the replies.
Their advice is sound and proven. The last few days on the prolays show what fluctuations are possible.
As for borrowing 10,000 to gamble with...well I hope it works out, but it doesn't sound like you will have the patience!
As I say no offence.
U read my message wrong sherlock, i never said i know better than win2win, are you crazy? I was quoting wot HE said, and he was joking :peek

[e55exboi]

Pyschology of your mind is all part of pro-gambling. I can only give you the fire power to make money, yourself is the weapon, and only you can control that.
Right well thanks win2win, i think i finally got wot i wanted to know :)

[e55exboi]

You take a loan of 10k, you pack your job in, and you lose it all on gambling, don't expect the dole money to pay the repayments because then your going to be starving and maybe homeless until you get it paid off.
Mate im already in 10k debt so that would be 20k lol. Plus il be giving up work no matter wot i do cos il be better off, no rent to pay etc as i have missus and baby.

[presto]

if you are in dept gambling is the last thing you should be doing. as we always advise - don't bet what you cant afford to lose.

another point to mention is - i think you are treating betting as a get rich quick scheme. it is not!

also systems sometimes go into negative figures when they are getting established, what then? borrow another £10k.

[e55exboi]

I know its long term. Im still not giving up on favourite betting, keep researching old results every night and havent come across a day where 0.25% ended in ruin, and each day produces £250

[silax]

essexs boy by the sounds of it your in a bit of a financial pickle and your looking at the state to bail you out fair enough **** happens and thats your life plan. now what you got to do imo is sort yourself out.
this site can help you but unlike the state it won't do it all for you and won't pick you up if you **** up. its not a quick fix its a road with quite a few signposts that point the way and you've got plenty of people who are willing to give you directions.
first bit of advice i would give you is to change your attitude. you might know everything there is to know about horses but you can't gamble to save your life or you wouldn't be in the state you are in.
i know **** all about horses but i do know how to gamble i learnt my trade here 2 years down the line i make enough to live on i have a house in spain and i'm gonna live there hopefully this month. at the minute i don't follow any of win2win systems. i'm thinking of doing the pro-losers soon i may come in with a £10k bank but i've spent 2 years learning i know what to expect and my own systems make enough to live on if i lose it it don't matter (will hurt a bit)
now take the advice everybody is throwing at you and start small give it 6 months and see where you are start with £200 and call it baby fund by the time he starts school you should be able to afford to give up work. set yourself a time target of 3 years on the bad losing runs associated with the pro-losers you just say well i only started with £200 wtf.
you've got off to a bit of a bad start with people on here so chill out and listern learn to be a bit more humble. there is people associated with this site who are doing what you want to do more then anything making a living out of racehorses. think of yourself as an apprentice and its gonna take 2 years to serve your time then you'll make the big bucks

[bigcumba]

Good advice Silax :)

[e55exboi]

Silax if you know nothing bout horses how do you do your own system? Just wondering

[silax]

******* hell big c took me ages to find this again obviously needs posting in th diary thread i think he's up there now lol
no he's down here

[silax]

well i know a little bit but the average guy in the betting shop or local club will know more then me.
where i have the advantage is i learnt how to gamble using this site and i also made money learning but i made some horrible mistakes if i'd started with big money i would be in big trouble now instead of looking forward to everyday.
i've seen guys like yourself and they just don't know how to gamble and to tell the truth you can't explain it to them cos sooner or later they hit a bad run and thats it they go back to there old ways.
someone posted on here not so long ago that only 345 people using betfair made more then £15,000 in the last 12 months. i'm not in that group just yet but i'm getting there i would imagine this time next year there will be quite a few members from this site in that bracket what makes the guys from this site unique is almost all of them started with an outlay of £200 betting bank.
knowing how to gamble is the key to success in this game if you know how to do that you're 75% of the way there.

[tophatter]

Mate im already in 10k debt so that would be 20k lol. Plus il be giving up work no matter wot i do cos il be better off, no rent to pay etc as i have missus and baby.

You mean you will get the taxpayers to pay for your rent and feed your child do you? And no doubt the 10K your borrow to go with the 10K you are originally in debt will just go in the same bin if you fail?
I will be honest, I dont care much for that philosiphy. Im as red as they come (except for maybe piggy :D ) but i dont agree with others bailing people out of mess of their own making.
Keep on working and earning a wage and learn the ropes on here first. You will fail otherwise, but to be honest that will be my last word of advice i will give you.

[e55exboi]

ok