Newbie questions [Archive] - Win2Win UK Horse Racing Forum. Free Tips. Staking Advice.

Mr Gee

17th January 2005, 16:07

Hi guys
I have been following this site for a few weeks now and i am considering joining the members bit but i have a few questions
basically i have jack sh%t knowledge of horse racing and recently saw a website that for a monthly fee offered 4-8 tips a week and claimed to have made a tidy profit on the tips if you put £100 on each bet or more depending on the pts it told you to put on it unfortunatley i lost over £1000 over about 6 weeks so i cant afford to use it anymore.knowing my luck i joined on at the start of a losing streak and will leave at the start of a winning streak as todays tip won but i couldnt afford the risk of losing another ton.

Now the reason i have been looking at sites like this is because i am sick of lsoing money to big fat greedy bookies and paying for there extravagant lifestyle ::swear

I am Interested to know what i need to know if i am going to join how does it work do you just post tips on the site that i should stick money on or is it more complicated ? do i need to spend hours a day doing this to make a profit or is it quite straightfoward (i dont have much time free ) is it a about backing horses to win and what is this lay i keep hearing about from what i can work out its backing horses not to win (if this is the case its a shame i didnt do that with the tips i recieved on the other site or infact just about every horse i have ever backed :JK )

can anyone win good money with this system or do you need horse racing knowledge / experience as i said i have none i just like the buzz at the moment but cant go on losing money , after a few years of reckless gambling i need to instil some discipline into my gambling i think :wink

Any help apppreciated i have loads of questions but that took ages so it will do for now

cheers fellas

mathare

17th January 2005, 16:16

Hello Mr Gee.

What do you need to know to start on here? Nothing!

Seriously.

Alright, you need to know how to place a bet and that's about it.

If you sign up as a member of the W2W racing club (currently £30 a month, due to go up in Feb to £35 but there is a discount on the first month) you get:
o all the members systems bets (about 8 or so systems)
o all the members lays bets (aka pro losers - more on them later)
o access to the members area of the forum
o advice from the boss man himself
and more!

If you don't join you still get access to the free area of the W2W forum (where you are now) and the free racing tips on the main W2W racing page.

If you read the forum you will learn a lot about racing and gambling in general. We can teach you how to be good at this game - if you are prepared to put in a little work.

The lays (aka pro losers). Yeah, you are backing the horse to lose effectively. You are acting as a bookie on Betfair (or another betting exchange), offering odds on a horse and hoping someone who thinks the horse will win will accept your odds. If they do the bet is struck. If the horse loses you take the other fella's money. But if it wins you pay out at the odds you offered.

Have a look around on the forum. Read a lot, ask questions where you need to but be prepared to learn. A lot :)

I'd start with the free tips on the main W2W page. Get comfortable following those and then sign up as a member. And make a lot of money :D

If you need anything else, don't be afraid to ask.

e55exboi

17th January 2005, 16:23

Hi,
well you dont really need to know anything about racing to profit from this site but it does help in getting the best odds on betfair, altho after a fair bit of practice im still crap at predicting which horses will drift or get backed.
These systems do profit well, there is a 10 year results history for the 4 NH systems and 4 flat systems, the idea is you back a % of your bank per horse either adjusting daily or increasing when bank doubles and decreasing if bank halves etc.
You should have a seperate bank for whichever system u choose to do. Had u stuck your £1k on the JTS system from April 2004 backing @1% (£10 stakes) you would have reached at least £4k by now if not more if you adjusted stakes daily. In fact the JTS is the best performer at the moment but has long losing runs so 1% is the max advised bet.
Well thats my opinion anyway :)

Incidently if you were betting £100 with a £1k bank on the tipsters selections u were betting 10% of your bank. Even the most effective system/method in the world probly couldnt handle 10% stakes! :yikes:

vegyjones

17th January 2005, 16:27

If you do join the forum, remember to put E55ex boi on your IGNORE list
so you don't have to read any of his posts! :laugh

Only kidding e55.

I have found that this site doesn't just help you win money...
(it can do if that's all you want it for though)...
it makes you think about HOW and WHY you win money.

The people are mostly pleasant and will help you with any queries you may have...
except me because I'm stoopid! :D

e55exboi

17th January 2005, 16:29

Mr Gee

17th January 2005, 17:19

If you do join the forum, remember to put E55ex boi on your IGNORE list

The people are mostly pleasant and will help you with any queries you may have...
except me because I'm stoopid! :D

Hi veggy mate

yes i actually followed some of your tips on the forum ::swear

only jestin fella i only staked very small bets like a quid a pop i was also looking at some guy called merlin's tips i wish i had been following them from the start of the month instead of the other one :anger

one other question (of many to come)
what betting site do you reccomend i use i currently use coral but have had only bad luck with them and someone mentioned a few others but i cant remember the name

Thing is i do think i have some of the worst luck gambling wise , only yesterday i had money on a draw between fullham - west brom and for about the 10th time this month someone scored in the last minute ::swear

do you reccomend i have seperate accounts for my football bets (which is the sport i prefer and know a bit about )

can someone explain the seperate banks , im i right in thinking i could have several accounts on the same website and use them for different types of bets ? would a starting account of £100/200 be a decent place to start and what bets/tips do you reccomend i follow of this site to make the most profit .

on a side note i had some much needed luck today following some tips on this forum and a few other sites

BET DETAIL

Type Stake
Lucky 31 £40.30
won £150.91

Event Choice ODDS H/OU Res 1 Res 2 Half
20050398386
HALLAND
1.50 Doncaster E/W
(1/4 1-2-3) 9/2 0 2 0
20050398408
REVEILLEZ
12.45 Doncaster E/W
(1/5 1-2-3) 4/6 1 0 0
20050398446
HEAT OF THE NIG'
3.50 W'Hampton E/W
(1/5 1-2-3) SP 1 0 0
20050398491
HIAMOVI
1.40 W'Hampton E/W
(1/5 1-2-3) 5/2 1 0 0
20050398538
BARTON NIC
2.00 Plumpton E/W
(1/4 1-2) Evs 1 0 0

4 out of 5 aint bad but are these the sort of bets people who know what they are doing would reccomend ?

p.s sorry for the length of the post Ooo

mathare

17th January 2005, 17:26

Keep it simple to start with.

Win singles or e/w bets only. Nothing exotic like a lucky 31. Bookies make a fortune off them as they rarely come in.

As for online bookies - open accounts (through the links on the W2W site) with as many as you can afford to so you can shop around for the best prices when you have a bet to make.

Separate banks - this just means keeping separate records for football bets, horse racing bets etc. Not necessarily different accounts, just different win/lose figures etc. You will soon learn that decent record keeping is the key to getting started and doing well.

vegyjones

17th January 2005, 17:33

Hi veggy mate

yes i actually followed some of your tips on the forum ::swear

:laugh

1st rule to learn on this forum.... ALWAYS LAY Vegy's tips! :D
I'm not doing too badly at the mo... less than a point and a half down.

In a streak of good form at the moment too!

The bookie most on here would recommend is betfair.

Better odds than the onventional bookies and laying horses,
which it sounds like you have yet to master, is how most
of the people on here make their money.

One turned £200 quid from 2 and a half years ago which is currently a 5 figure sum.

There's plenty of info on this on the forum, you definitely need to read
before progressing to this.

e55exboi

17th January 2005, 17:35

Pros only do single win bets, period...to make their living with that is...they might do accumulators for fun on the side. Keith (site owner) does a daily trixie which came in today, but is meant for fun only.
£100-£200 is a good starting point, i myself am only in my 2nd month of membership, am only breaking even thus far, but have been switching systems and am only just settling down.
As for which systems you do is your choice, they each have different strike rates etc it may pay you do have a days membership for £1.75 and look at the 10yr results to make up your own mind, but basically if youve got enough money to spare then do all the NH systems and the JTS. Pro losers take more effort altho Tophatter does a daily diary of the pro losers which goes all the way back to 347BC...(yep laid some top chariot favourites back then :laugh...ahem)....and he gets his lays on in half an hour.
So gooo check it out

Onlyforfun

17th January 2005, 18:04

First thing to do, sort out a betting bank, i.e., money you can afford to lose.

Second, stake sensibly, as mentioned 10% of your bank is unsustainable.

Thirdly when following a tipster / system, start with a small bank and if he / it is any good it will increase as will your stakes. This way the system pays for itself. If its unprofitable it will still be unprofitable whether you bet £1, £10 or £1000 per selection.

If you don't have much time and / or knowledge treat it as a fun way to make your beer money for the weekend. In time you may spend more time on it and as you learn you might find it pays for your annual holiday. To go all the way to being a Pro takes years and is probably harder (if more enjoyable) than a day job. I started for fun, but noiw take it very seriously and hope to turn Pro by the time I'm 50 (I'm 29 at the moment!:laugh)

mathare

17th January 2005, 18:09

hope to turn Pro by the time I'm 50 (I'm 29 at the moment!:laugh)I had you down as being older than that OFF. Must be the Tory voting that does it :)

I'm 28 now and I'm looking to a similar age for turning pro. Realistically I think it's about right.

vegyjones

17th January 2005, 18:14

TH has successfully turned £200 into £10000 in 2 and a half years

If that ROI continues, I would imagine he would be able to quit work
in the next 3-5 years. As long he has no worries that the system
will not be sustainable.

I would imagine that in ten years time, that 200 would have
reached at least a £million even with level or even reduced liabilities

e55exboi

17th January 2005, 18:21

I had you down as being older than that OFF. Must be the Tory voting that does it :)

I'm 28 now and I'm looking to a similar age for turning pro. Realistically I think it's about right.
:yikes: 22 years time? U should easily be a millionaire by then. Any of us on here should, and should at least be able to withdraw £50k a year in 2-5 years surely

mathare

17th January 2005, 18:27

:yikes: 22 years time? U should easily be a millionaire by then. Any of us on here should, and should at least be able to withdraw £50k a year in 2-5 years surelyI seriously doubt it. I lay to small stakes, very small stakes in some cases.

I do the pro losers to probably about 1-2% of what TH does them to.

I seriously believe the systems will stand the test of time so I am starting small and allowing a bank to grow rather than piling in, boosting the banks with my own cash. I'll let the banks grow and then if it all goes wrong I have only lost my initial, small deposit.

As for withdrawing cash. I'd want huge banks before I start creaming cash off the top. You need a bankroll able to sustain your stakes. For example if I get a bank up to £10k I will back/lay to appropriate stakes but won't cream anything off that would see me put that £10k at risk. Why take £5k out only to have to build the bank back up again?

But those days are a long way off yet

e55exboi

17th January 2005, 18:32

Blimey u obviously get good money anyway then :peek

mathare

17th January 2005, 18:40

Blimey u obviously get good money anyway then :peek

Gambling is a hobby that I have been doing for about 18 months now. I don't expect to make a decent living from it for a long while yet and I am in respectable (!) full-time employment (software engineer/team leader at LogicaCMG) so I have a decent income. Even so I am going to let the systems to the work and build their own banks. I can afford to shove several grand more into them but I am not prepared to lose that money. I don't mind if I end up losing my initial deposits though.

TheOldhamWhisper

17th January 2005, 18:53

One thing I would immediately advise is to learn how to keep good records and how to win money.

The first bit simply means keeping accurate records of ALL betting banks and recording every bet you make (including your 'fun' bets). Start off with a fairly small amount that you might lose - so be sure it is money you can afford. After 1 month, you will be able to see how 'damaging' these 'fun bets' are to your banks and you will soon drop them and stick to the systems.

Learning how to win....I'm not talking about how to pick winners, I'm talking about learning the discipline to succeed by raising stakes during the 'good' times and lowering them to protect the bank during the 'not so good' spells that we all encounter. If you cannot win with a bank of say £50, you cannot do it with £5000. The bigger the bank, the more temptation there is to increase stakes and 'chase' losses - a sure way to the poor house!

Take some time to read through the posts on here and the free information on the main pages and formulate a 'business plan'. What are you going to start with, how much do you intend to stake per bet, what point will you increase stakes (and what is the trigger to reduce them) etc.

Very few get it right first time, but if you read mathare's signature, you'll see some pretty sound advice!

jollyjayne

17th January 2005, 18:54

. In time you may spend more time on it and as you learn you might find it pays for your annual holiday.

Despite making many mistakes( some costing me over £ 500 ) I have still managed to pay for my hols, so it can`t be bad.
As I write this at 2am in Oz and night temperatures of 70`F, I would only like to add to what is written above is
- take it slowly , don`t run before you can walk.
When times are good they are very good, but when times are bad they are ;fire ;fire bad.
If you can have the nerve ( and at first it is not easy ) to get through the bad times, it will be very worthwhile.
But most of all, have fun.

AngieS

17th January 2005, 20:01

bigcumba

17th January 2005, 20:11

Welcome aboard Angie, always good to see when someone has a great start like that - well done! :) There's plenty of info about the pro losers and particularly staking plans from both Keith and Tophatter, and any of the regulars will always be able to help with them if you need it. :)

AngieS

17th January 2005, 20:20

Hi bc

Printed th's beginners guide which was very helpful and looked on betfair so I think I have worked it out. Not going to start yet as I will not be able to do them every day. But I only have 2 weeks left at work so am going to start then as I can't get all the relevent sites up at work they have blocked them.

Thanks,

Regards

Angie

e55exboi

17th January 2005, 20:42

Hi everyone
I'm new too only joined on fri. I did join for the day last Sat and was £81.00 up. Most days I have made a profit except for today but I only do the A+ and NH. Trying to get my head round the pro loosers. I think I am almost there. You think I would know having worked in a bookies for 8 years a long time ago.

I also paid a lot of money to a tipster most of which I eventually got back. Not the joining fee though £1200.00. But in just 10 days I am £200.80 up.

Regards,

Angie.
:yikes: £1200 joining fee?!

Like most people who find this site i would imagine, youl be kicking yourself wishing youd found it earlier. Id seen it hundreds of times on Google months prior to actually reading anything about it! Had i looked the first time i may well be that much richer by now.

AngieS

17th January 2005, 21:09

The sight was so impressive (seen it a thousand times) all bets monitered by r.p. and what do you get 20 loosers in a row recomended at 100 per point. Did have some big wins also big losses. Still get acess though though another source maybe I should put them on here and lay them to loose. 1 in 20 does not seem like a bad stirke rate

e55exboi

17th January 2005, 21:46

Wasnt Henry Rix by any chance?

AngieS

17th January 2005, 21:59

How did you guess

bigcumba

17th January 2005, 22:07

How did you guess

:) I think we've all heard how much Mr Rix charges for his service..... yet for £35 a month here you can get all the best info, systems and support from the boss himself and all the regulars....

AngieS

17th January 2005, 22:13

Yes shame i didn't find it earlier.

Onlyforfun

17th January 2005, 22:44

First month will only cost you £20, and you will get access to the members area of the forum which is chocka with staking advice and loads of personal help to get you started. Its only the price of 1 bet for a lot of people who first arrive here (my average bet decreased rapidly after I found this site 'cos I wanted to be a winner- long term!)

AngieS

17th January 2005, 22:48

I became a 30 day member on fri

Onlyforfun

17th January 2005, 23:03

In that case, any questions, ask away upstairs. Its almost a point of principal to get people into a winning mentality if they have the right attitude.

AngieS

17th January 2005, 23:21

It did start off as positive I was happy after following this site for a few days and was already £200.00 better off from little acorns as the saying goes any probs I will get back to you thanks

silax

17th January 2005, 23:29

if you can angie try to download a different browser might help might not

e55exboi

18th January 2005, 01:14

if you can angie try to download a different browser might help might not
:doh

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 02:48

OFF=mentality

That's Veggy, TWM & BOI out then :laugh

vegyjones

18th January 2005, 11:21

;fire

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 11:32

cheers for all the info fellas much appreciated , i have decided to give a go for a month and see how it goes i have read the basics of pro betting and quite a bit of the forum , i have sent a email to get access to the members forum but when i try and enter it says not authorised to access this forum , is there something else i need to do ?

i am thinking of following one system to start with , with a small bank of £100/200 setting stakes of 5% of the bank on all bets does this sound right or should some bets be less %

cheers

Workshy

18th January 2005, 11:36

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 11:37

You need to forward your username on the email at the top of the BT update page. Also remember, I'm in a different time zone, and it's bed time at 3pm GMT.

vegyjones

18th January 2005, 11:39

You mean you and your good lady wife aren't spending ALL DAY in bed!

The romance has all but gone! :(
:D

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 11:40

You need to forward your username on the email at the top of the BT update page. Also remember, I'm in a different time zone, and it's bed time at 3pm GMT.

Hi mate
i did that last nite but its not been delivered it says on my email account undeliverable , i have sent a new one just now .

Ian

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 11:41

Must have bounced back off the tsunami :yikes:.....I'll go check now....

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 11:43

....OOOPPPSS....just noticed an error in the code, I've changed it so use the new address on the BT page please....

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 11:49

....OOOPPPSS....just noticed an error in the code, I've changed it so use the new address on the BT page please....

sorted mate sent another one to that email addy

mathare

18th January 2005, 11:58

i am thinking of following one system to start with , with a small bank of £100/200 setting stakes of 5% of the bank on all bets does this sound right or should some bets be less %It sounds like you are starting in a sensible manner by following just one system.

What I would do in your case is split the bank in two, say two £100 banks and follow a system such as Vet HN or NH Media F/c Fav to 2.5-3% and the A+ tips to 2%, updating your stakes on a daily basis. So for day 1 stake the A+ bets at £2 and the system bets at £2.50 then recalculate 2% and 2.5% of your A+ and system banks respectively tomorrow.

Use Betfair for your betting and if you need to get round the £2 minimum bet (ie if you follow the A+ at 2% and the first few lose) do a quick search of the forum and you'll find an easy way.

HTH :)

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 12:18

Don't forget to read up on TWM's chess arbs :yikes:

e55exboi

18th January 2005, 12:35

That's Veggy, TWM & BOI out then :laugh
Questioning my mentality eh? Rite, well when ive bought my mclaren F1 il drive up to ya (could take a while finding those desolate reaches) and show you i just didnt have the mentality to make it :D Then il do a fat burnout on your drive :wink

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 12:43

do a fat burnout on your drive
You'll have the wrong house then, I don't have a drive :D

bigcumba

18th January 2005, 12:49

do a fat burnout on your drive :wink

As long as you bring enough bog roll to wipe your :butthead: clean when you're finished.... :yikes:

bigcumba

18th January 2005, 12:51

You'll have the wrong house then, I don't have a drive :D

At least not in the usual sense.... think more like Windsor Castle and the park surrounding it.... :wink

e55exboi

18th January 2005, 13:11

You'll have the wrong house then, I don't have a drive :D
No drive my :butthead: Wot have u got then...a runway?

bigcumba

18th January 2005, 13:19

No drive my :butthead: Wot have u got then...a runway?

He has a helipad in the grounds.... it's where he parks the chopper.... apparently it's just a small chopper, but it keeps the wife happy :yikes:

e55exboi

18th January 2005, 13:28

:laugh

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 13:32

The password for the members area forum doesnt seem to work , i have tried the one on the main site , and my own password but neither are working .

what am i doing wrong ? :mover

Workshy

18th January 2005, 13:38

The password for the members area forum doesnt seem to work , i have tried the one on the main site , and my own password but neither are working .

what am i doing wrong ? http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/cwm34.gif

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Try this link and enter the 6 letter password :)

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 13:58

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Try this link and enter the 6 letter password :)

cheers mate will try that

Am i right in thinking that all bets should be placed as win only not each way ?

also on the tips it says sr (i pressume strike rate ) but what are the numbers in brackets below ?

mathare

18th January 2005, 13:58

Am i right in thinking that all bets should be placed as win only not each way ?Yep. The results shown on the members page are for win only bets. I'd stick with that.

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 14:01

also should i also use the bets on the free site (the max ones) ?

mathare

18th January 2005, 14:04

also should i also use the bets on the free site (the max ones) ?Why not? The A+ bets on the free site are the same quality as the A+ held back for the members page.

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 14:11

The numbers in brackets are for my reference to make sure you get the correct qualifer, otherwise it'll look like Tommo's tipping line :D

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 14:41

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=19

Try this link and enter the 6 letter password :)

Hmm i cant find the password anywhere mate ?

Workshy

18th January 2005, 14:45

About 5-6 inchs above the Flat System selections in bold blue type, 6 letters at the moment. This is on the members page with all the system selections.

Win2Win

18th January 2005, 14:54

The password is in BLUE near the top of the BT Update page.

Mr Gee

18th January 2005, 20:51

The password is in BLUE near the top of the BT Update page.

cheers guys sorted it i was entering the wrong password doh

Not a Good start with the bets today but hopefully will have more luck tommorow or knowing my luck i will have just joined on a massive losing streak :yikes:

Thanks for all your help and if there is anything else i may need to know please let me know as there seems to be a fair bit to get your head round

tophatter

18th January 2005, 21:18

Win2Win

19th January 2005, 02:16

enjoy yourself!!!
JI is in Oz, I'm in Singapore, TWM is in Skegness!!!!! You should get a decent holiday out of it in 2-3 years.

Mr Gee

19th January 2005, 13:39

Good luck Mate.

Start off small and if we do hit a losing streak it will not hurt you and could even help you in the long run. Dont expect miracles and you should be pleasently suprised. Most people who become members for six months or more usually stay members so make the first six months goal is to soak up as much knowledge as you can and learn the ropes. The bigger stakes and rewards will arrive once that apprenticeship is served. And most importantly of all - enjoy yourself!!!

cheers bud

1 more questions if i am following the max a+ bets and NH Media F/c Fav
would i be right in thinking there is no bets to make today apart from the free one ?

also will these systems work if somedays i cant put bets on because of work etc ?

mathare

19th January 2005, 13:51

1 more questions if i am following the max a+ bets and NH Media F/c Fav would i be right in thinking there is no bets to make today apart from the free one ?

also will these systems work if somedays i cant put bets on because of work etc ?Yep, just the one bet today for you then.

The systems should still work but remember that the strike rate and profit stats cover every bet so try and get as many on as you can. Shouldn't matter too much if you miss a few though as they are long term systems

Mr Gee

19th January 2005, 13:56

Yep, just the one bet today for you then.

The systems should still work but remember that the strike rate and profit stats cover every bet so try and get as many on as you can. Shouldn't matter too much if you miss a few though as they are long term systems

cheers mate i guess i am going to have get used to the fact that somedays i might only be on to win £1.64 like today (suppose this is one of the disiplines to learn) at least i only have to worry about the possible loss of £2.00 which is nice for a change :wink