So What?

[hayzee]

I'm sure there would not be many that would agree I am not a cynic.
This applies to forum life and reality.
I grew up in the east end,but realised many years ago that chancers,con men/women,can emanate from all walks of life and all parts of the country.
Crafty cockneys,yes, of course,but I suppose nobody has ever heard of a crafty toff,or crafty yorkie.
I've done a varied and interesting amount of things to earn a few bob,tried not to cross that very thin line tooooo often,I like to sleep nights,but getting to the time of life when it would be easier to type a little on a computer than be out there,wheeling dealing and mixing it.
Now my old man taught me many things,but the best lesson,apart from not following the second fav at the stow on retreival was not to trust anyone.
I've spent a fair time researching,following and modifying systems (ok don't take the piss!)but get all enthusiastic until they turn a funny shape,where's the 5/4 now?
Anyhow,I'm not a greedy person,don't mind putting in 3/4 hours a day and laying out a ton a day,so can anyone out there,with all the knowledge,info,etc,etc,etc,let me know where I can earn a ton a week with these stakes?your reward,half,stakes increased according to results.
I don't care if the info is from RSB,VDW,BHS,DVD,or astrology.
There are two services I am tempted with,W2W being one,but who can say with all honesty that you are sure to not only make money but not lose the ******* lot? at the moment I'd rather trust my own judgement,if it all goes a funny shape I can get out quick and it's cost me zilch.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

W2W only cost 67p a day for the first month.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

There are NO guarantees in this game, but I think most (if not all) members will agree that almost every month, they make enough from the information provided to at least cover the cost of their membership.

Nothing is easy though and to make the most of the membership requires you to do a little work in reading the advice provided on staking and how to profit from the systems.

Many of the members are long-term and have been with W2W for over a year - that in itself should go a long way to convince you that the site must be providing some good information.

There's no 'quick-fix' - there's no guarantee that you won't lose the bank - but there is enough information to teach you to become a more successful player.

[tophatter]

My input into this is simply that you are paying for the education and the fact the system work is done for you by win2win. People make the mistake when joining in thinking that if they dont make back there membership each month then they are down. You need to be a member for a year to see the full scheme of things - Most normal punters throw that away and more over the course of a year on mug bets anyhow.

It is a bit like joining a golf club, you pay your fee and then can use the facility as much or little as you want. Also with it being mothly you can quit at anytime if it is not for you. And of course if you don't join the members section, there is a good amount of free info on the site and forum - probably more than some other websites actually give you and charge you for.

[hayzee]

I have 3/4 hours a day that I can call my own and the net costs me nothing,so getting a ton a week profit,even over 7 days,would deal with my essentials,(I get cheap baccy and booze),I love cheese and onion toasties with soup,so my other income could be devoted to more important things.....
If I'm splitting the income with a.n.other,I don't want to do the selections also.
The way I look at it,is if one is that clever why aren't you rich,if you are why the **** are you almost giving your services to others?I'm ****** if I would,if I found the holy grail I'd use it and leave it to the family,**** everyone else.
As W2W once said,and I don't quote,if you have a system where you are getting a profit,don't worry about a staking system,just lump on.
I not looking for something for nothing,everything has its price,just trying to find something out there that is probably not available.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

So I make a lot of money, it took a lot of work to get there. Then I just stop because I have loads of money and do what??? My life is horse racing, making money is just a bonus. If I wasn't doing this my life is over, I have no interest in doing anything else.

I run this site to help others, the same as my Filipino, poker, and other sites, either free or at cost price.

[tophatter]

it isnt the holy grail hayzee it is a lot of hard work mentally. Basically on the pro losers i have probably layed, i don't know, 15,000 horses or so to get to the point I am currently at. That is over 2 years of gambling, to turn £200 into nearly 10 grand.

I also try to help new people because I enjoy the buzz seeing them make a go of it when I have gave them a bit of advice. Some days I actually worry more about how some people are getting on rather than worry about my own bank, because I am experienced enough to know my bank will look after itself.

I am enjoying it immensley because I have been told all my life that gambling is a mugs game and that you can not make money from it. It is a challenge to prove myself the exception to that rule and helping other people is a form of sticking two fingers up at the people who say it is impossible to make it pay. Im only following the systems, if i was the creator and maintainer of the systems as well as running a thriving website, I can not imagine how much of a buzz that would give me - it must be amazing. That is why I can understand 100% what Keith means when he says it is his life - most people earn their money doing a job that either earns money by doing other people down, or is totally unrewarding. Keith earns the money from the gambling and gets the rewarding side of it by running a top website and helping people - I would give the world to be in his shoes.

[hayzee]

Thanks W2W,TH,
trust me this is not personal,
I appreciate all the work and commitment,period.
I have only known four pro gamblers,(personally)one,as a lad who was a mates dad that gave up 'proper' work and made a living picking horses,his only pisser was that he couldn't pick the winning team at any footy match,with only the two to choose from.
Two blokes who gave up 'work' and bet maybe two close price horses a week and a.n.other. who is a genuine pro.
This guy has been there and back,now owns or part owns horses,to keep an interest and get the perks! has retired well wealthy,but still as tight as a ducks ****.
Arthritis is a weird thing,the more you can't do a **** about it,like a lot of shitty health probs being mostly hereditary,the more cures crop up.
With horse racing,the more those winners seem just around the corner,if only,what if,the more services promise the grail and the more people arguing the point prior to the race,sound familiar.
All I'm asking is this,with all the knowledge on here or anywhere else on the net,if everyone is so clever,why can't they turn my £700 a week into £800,too much to ask,you bet.
Five bets of £20 or one of £100 a day,I don't give a ****,promises,promises,promises,the yard had a cough they didn't know about,the jockey farted,the going was a tad too soft,the pace was too slow,ad infinitum.
Am I asking too much,I don't think so,work it out for yourself,if there was a site that could promise to turn £700 a week into £800 you wouldn't be able to access it for people signing up,me for one.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

First of all you need to understand the maths of pro betting, we teach you that, but at the moment you don't seem to know how it ticks in the background, and without the maths/stats knowledge their is not much chance of making money.

I can only give the advice, and the ammunition to use to profit, it is up to the individual what they do with it.

Your also looking at to short a time scale, your apprenticeship would last at least 3 months.

[hayzee]

Thanks W2W,
I've served my apprenticeship,sorry if I sound naive.realise that like all investments there are ups and downs,strange though that excuses are always after the money down,at least you're honest and don't promise anything.
hayzee.

[e55exboi]

And will u put spaces after your commas, does my eyes in reading your posts. And wots with all this a.n.other lark?!?! :doh

[tophatter]

No one can promise to turn £700 into £800 per week mate, because it is too short a timescale and there is not enough selections to balance out the strike rates etc. I have seen people start the pro-losers with banks of £1000 and bottle it because they are trying to run before they know the score. I reckon You could turn £700 into £50,000 in three years from keiths work which is actually three times better than what you are wanting but the first six months might see only £250 profit.

You can not due to the nature of system gambling actually take an income until your bank is big enough to cream it off the top. That is because you have to ride out bad periods and if you are withdrawing profits then you are loweing your tolerance to bad runs. That is the simple truth, no B.S. no hard sell. If you just want beer money then maybe a year needs spending to build up a bank. If you want a £100 a week maybe two years - I think I could withdraw £100 a week now if i chose. Three years and you might be able to withdraw a living wage.

Anyone who is seeling their tips or systems as anything else is almost doomed to failure, because all systems take hits and if you havent stored prevous profits as rainy day money then you will be sunk

[e55exboi]

Are you saying you spend £700 a week on gambling?! Er sounds like your job pays enough to not bother

[hayzee]

E55ex,
don't know whether your talking to me??? the fred is getting a bit convoluted.
No of course I don't use £700 a week gambling,but I'd be prepared to if it meant earning a oner doing it,just proving the point what a load of *******s this horse tipping lark is.
I'm basically a tenner a throw,more if it's worth it,
The person who said don't gamble with money you can't afford to lose was a ****,who can afford to lose any money,even if you're worth loads a money.
hayzee.

[Win2Win]

Quiet a lot can afford to lose the betting money, they treat it as payment for entertainment.

[e55exboi]

:laugh BLimey your a one! You been on here longer than i have you should know wots wot. Have u not had a day on the members page and looked at the 10 year results? If your willing to spend £700 a week you must have it in the first place. If its money you would usually need but hope you can make a guaranteed profit each week then it wont work. Youd lose £500 one week but make £2000 the next. Gotta start with a bank, simple as that

[hayzee]

E55ex,
I haven't spent a moment on the members page,my view is those that's paid should be those that's lookin.
There would be those that would say this is sooooooo obvious.
Thanks for the tip about starting with a bank,hadn't sussed that one,who do suggest barclays natwest or the ******* co-op.

[e55exboi]

So pay for the members page then u can look cant you :geek Sounds like £700 is your starting bank then, so get betting.

[ScotsDave]

Hayzee, I'll chuck my tuppence in here as maybe hearing from someone who isn't a regular poster may mean something.

I started on here properly as a member about May last year and went through a long learning curve. That said, I now have two accounts - my Betfair account started with £200 and now stands just over £700 (pro lays) and my Betdaq started with £30 and now stands at £400 (okay started the JTS on a good day and use it for my own lays but is fairly representative as to what is possible).

Now that to me is a tremendous return for someone who had the occasional win on fixed odds football and a bet on the national every year.

Anyhoo, the point I'm trying to make is that what I have learnt here has made that happen. I am currently paper testing two systems of my own that barely break even to level stakes, but applying Keith's ideas on staking and throwing Mathare's thought's into the mix have converted them to possible winners.

Couple that with help from the likes of TH on the Pro Losers, and you should see why I have come so far in such a short time.

All the stuff about short-term-ism is absolutely true - you will never find what you've asked for, but with a little dedication and a following of the rules, i will soon easily be making £100 a week - and more importantly I'll know how and why, which is the important reason for me. Plenty of people have been burned before betting blindly on tips given out by web tipsters who guarantee a certain return. That doesn't happen here (even though the returns usually happen), but the amount of info available from numerous people who know the game is incredible.

Anyway, wish you luck whatever you do, but I would guess you would reach your target and more if you join this gaff and put some hours in - I know of no other site (and I've looked!) that could even come close to that.

All the best

Dave

[e55exboi]

Only £500 since May? Pro losers should have made you more should it not?

[ScotsDave]

Only £500 since May? Pro losers should have made you more should it not?

Yeah, the 20% rule would see me at £856 if I'd started at beginning of May (which I didn't), stuck to the rules (which I didn't) and not missed numerous days due to working away (and we all know which days we miss ;fire )

[Workshy]

To be frank (for the 3rd time today!), I dont know why any of you are replying to someone so unwelcoming to the replies they're getting. Hayzee, if you're such a sceptical sarcastic 'person', go elsewhere, nobodies out to convince you.

[ScotsDave]

To be frank (for the 3rd time today!), I dont know why any of you are replying to someone so unwelcoming to the replies they're getting. Hayzee, if you're such a sceptical sarcastic 'person', go elsewhere, nobodies out to convince you.

Maybe you're right Workshy - but just in from pub and skimmed previous posts due to lager stagger (of the brain :geek )

[hayzee]

Thanks everyone,
Scots,E55ex,even Workshy.
As I said some time ago,nothing personal,I'm here,on a forum provided by a guy who will probably forget more than I have ever learned,re horserace betting anyway.
I'm not trying to cut corners,but considering all the available knowledge,still strange that instead of saying,I'm pro,I'm not telling you how I got here,but here are the horses,I'm sure you are not basically concerned whether the horse is sired by,is trained by,is ridden by,has been beaten by/has beaten,in such and such time under such and such conditions at these tracks,drawn/priced/placed,etc;etc;etc;but I'll just give you the horses to do,that'll do most of us.
We don't want to know that we've come in on a downturn period,things will buck up soon,while we all want to fathom out how to pick winners,basically most of us don't give a ****,as long as there are more winners than losers at a price to make it profitable.
Too much to ask,I'll leave that to you,to argue about,contemplate,decide upon.
And workshy,strange how those that are real pro's,try and detach themselves from,or have an intrinsic quality to do so,re the outcome of an individual race,it's all part of the big picture.
I appreciate this,but never the less,when you try and pin down many services and ask them to cut the other stuff,just give me the horses,it's a bit like years ago when the 7 stone weakling(not a jock,they're well tough)wrote to Charles Atlas and said he had completed the course,please send the muscles.
If you can't deal with my posts workshy,don't read em or get the boss to cut the access,that is if he can do it without your nose stuck up his ****.

[tophatter]

Keith basically does what you ask hayzee. We get the horses from his systems and then it is up to us what we do with them. I prefer not knowing the rules to the systems as I don't question them, i just do them. Many a time I have layed a horse that I think will win, or backed a horse I think will lose, because it is a system and systems dont think they just do.

Systems take the debate and hassle out of betting. I know the strike rate, I know the staking system and I know the score. There is not a lot more you can really ask for

[Workshy]

Thanks everyone,
Scots,E55ex,even Workshy.
As I said some time ago,nothing personal,I'm here,on a forum provided by a guy who will probably forget more than I have ever learned,re horserace betting anyway.
I'm not trying to cut corners,but considering all the available knowledge,still strange that instead of saying,I'm pro,I'm not telling you how I got here,but here are the horses,I'm sure you are not basically concerned whether the horse is sired by,is trained by,is ridden by,has been beaten by/has beaten,in such and such time under such and such conditions at these tracks,drawn/priced/placed,etc;etc;etc;but I'll just give you the horses to do,that'll do most of us.
We don't want to know that we've come in on a downturn period,things will buck up soon,while we all want to fathom out how to pick winners,basically most of us don't give a ****,as long as there are more winners than losers at a price to make it profitable.
Too much to ask,I'll leave that to you,to argue about,contemplate,decide upon.
And workshy,strange how those that are real pro's,try and detach themselves from,or have an intrinsic quality to do so,re the outcome of an individual race,it's all part of the big picture.
I appreciate this,but never the less,when you try and pin down many services and ask them to cut the other stuff,just give me the horses,it's a bit like years ago when the 7 stone weakling(not a jock,they're well tough)wrote to Charles Atlas and said he had completed the course,please send the muscles.
If you can't deal with my posts workshy,don't read em or get the boss to cut the access,that is if he can do it without your nose stuck up his ****.

:laugh I can deal with every post on here, its the internet afterall :doh

Someone trying to seek attention through being a disagreeable, argumentative , wasnt long ago I read a post from you saying you could make money from betting without others assistance. Maybe you should go back to your porno site, atleast the perks will give you something to do instead of coming on here being a twirp. Better still, sign up, its cheap for your first month, a few dildo sales should cover it, then you can make your own decision sir without wasting everybodies time.

Get the boss to cut access? Arent we all our own bosses when it comes to betting :)

Best regards, Workshy xxx

[vegyjones]

Hayzee mate,

There has been much written publications on horse racing.
Much claim to solve all your questions, but don't.

Keith's bets, although he does his own method bets, gives
out system bets to people.

A book I won as a prize on here several months back was by Nick Mordin. I thought that it was going to a revelation and open my eyes. It did, but the message was, you can bet, and systems are the best ways of making money. However, systems don't always remain profitable (as others find similar/ the same system and the prices become devalued). Basically there has been lots of research but trends change and so no system can be deemed eternally profitable. The answer is to look and search out systems and trends that are current and will provide you with profit. But you have to keep reseraching trends to find new systems when your current one stops making money.

With win2win, Keith does all that hard work for you! All you have to do is spend 5 minutes (a little longer if you do the pro-lays) putting your bets on in the afternoon. With discipline and a sensible approach, you can't fail not to make money. And like Tophatter says, if you withdraw cash from a betting bank, you are reducing the potential profit! (That brings about a further topic about when should you withdraw and what amount of potential profit you will be losing)

That's how I see it anyway... :D

[hayzee]

Thanks TH,
I understand and appreciate.
Workshy,
That was off topic and a genuine inquiry.
I'm not bothered how people spend their money or spare time,if they want to jerk off while I don't have to look but get a few shillings a minute for a reasonable investment,so be it,I'm sure the dildo would be more interesting to you,I'll send you a catalogue,usual e-mail is it? maybe not,there are always those that would prefer to shoot up than jerk off.

[vegyjones]

Just realised TH posted what I said,
just a lot more succinct...
Sorry! :dunce

[tophatter]

[QUOTE=hayzee]if they want to jerk off while I don't have to look but get a few shillings a minute for a reasonable investmentQUOTE]

Ive heard the phrase of spending a penny for going for a :pss , but has Hayzee nnow come up with a new one of spending a shilling for the old :icon_tong :D

[hayzee]

Vegy,
I don't care if you want to do it in a O's shirt,just tell me that you really love me.
TH,
think of all those people humping themselves while your asleep,I just hope the cheques(or other nationalities) don't have wobbly handwriting.
Night all,good ere init.
hayzee.

[tophatter]

[QUOTE=hayzee]Vegy,
I don't care if you want to do it in a O's shirt,just tell me that you really love me.
TH,
think of all those people humping themselves while your asleepQUOTE]

I will try not to, it will give me nightmares! :wink

[bennyboy]

hayzee,


Listen to what people are trying to tell you in this thread. you don't appear to be doing so thus far.
do yourself a favour mate and join up as a full member. if you have that kind of starting bank and 3 hours a day to spare you'd be mad not to. spend half an hour putting the bets on and the rest reading through all the posts you can upstairs.
do the rest of us a favour and try not to be so objectionable. saying 'it's nothing personal' doesn't give you a licence to then be rude and rub people up the wrong way.
chill out.http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[vegyjones]

Vegy,
I don't care if you want to do it in a O's shirt,just tell me that you really love me.
I always do it in an O's shirt :laugh
And I love you... :D, well us East Enders have got to stick together.
rickAYYYYYYYYY! :D

[e55exboi]

I bet u lot thought I was bad! :rolleyes: K'me he does my head in! Hazee Keith has told us how he got here on numerous occasions, try scanning the forum, theres only a billion posts to read! And the horses arent picked by the man himself, hes not a "tipster", the selections come form a machine, yes a masheeen that churns out horses names that sound good and they happen to profit a real treat! Well..now and then :D

[MarcusMel]

Hazee - you sound despirate to win an easy way to an easy lifestyle. Keith is not bothered whether you join or don't. In fact I sure that the miserable attitude I feel from your posts we would probably prefer you not to join. Having a positive attitude is very important for this game of gambling we play.

When I first came to this site the system page gave the rules to the system and a table of results. I was surprised to find that some systems worked. Three simple rules and a remarkable profit to small stakes. The rules were removed because they tended to change the stats to quickly. I watched those systems only to find that the site was honest. I read all the advice that is public and is still public and thought about what it said and it makes practical sense.

Now why all these nice people are trying to tell you to join when we would probably all better off if you did not I have no idea.

As Vinny Jones would say 'Its been emotional'.

[sparkyminer]

I bet u lot thought I was bad!
It must be a South East thing. :D

[bigcumba]

It must be a South East thing. :D

:yikes: that means I could end up like that

[bennyboy]

It must be a South East thing. :D

oi sparkyhttp://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_evil.gif we'll have less of that!

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/wink.gifhttp://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[e55exboi]

It must be a South East thing. :D
Eeee by gum it chuffin well int!

[podtog]

Forget it people, it makes no difference to current members, theres only so much you can tell someone, nothing ventured and all that... in the end its better for us that fewer people sign up, sorry Keith Im worried about prices and if you had to put the price up I would pay if it meant fewer members,

[tophatter]

The prices are not affected by us because we are betting on mainly short horses with lots of liquidity. Also most of us bet relatively small.
I agree though that it makes no difference to current members - I was just answeing questions Hayzee was asking, however I could not give a monkeys shilling if he joined or not.

[Workshy]

I disagree. Definately during the week, with the total banks we have between us on here, the lay prices are longer than what they would be. :)

[podtog]

Yep on the lays I think they may become affected the more people start to build their banks up and on some of the longer priced backs but we are probably talking a while for those yet.

[icebreaker]

Guys, guys ............ why is everyone so "down" on Hayzee??? It's a bit unfair, in my opinion.

To re-cap, all the bloke has asked is: "Is it possible to earn a GUARANTEED £100 on the horses per week with an outlay of £700". Now, if you ask me, that is a valid and important question worthy of an answer. All the replies given so far (outside of put-downs) have been along the lines of JOIN W2W AND SERVE YOUR APPRENTICESHIP. Now Hayzee has on three posts expressed his respect for W2W but also stated that he HAS served his apprenticeship in betting ......... he's paid his dues in terms of time and money (something I can identify with) -- and he "Wants it all, and he wants it NOW" ! So fair enough. Now, if anybody could address his position (a guaranteed income for an outlay at odds of 1/7) I, too, would be very interested in hearing. Surely, this shouldn't be as hard as the search for the Holy Grail as some have suggested.

Now, in the last half-hour, I have set up a separate Betfair account of £700. It is my intention, starting tomorrow betting to real money to discover if it is possible to earn that £100 p/week. With everyone's indulgence I will post up the daily bet(s) on the Forum. To win £500 within a month. As much for my curiosity as anything.

Regards,
Ice.

[presto]

Is it possible to earn a GUARANTEED £100 on the horses per week with an outlay of £700

the thing about horse racing is that nothing is guaranteed.
so nobody could make that promise, what people have been saying about serving an apprentaship, is so you can get used to placing the bet's / lays - coping with ups and downs etc...

[tophatter]

No one is down on Hayzee, my god he is hardly a shrinking Violet is he, and I am sure he would agree that. He asked a question, I amongst others gave him the answer.

I will recap it. NO ONE can garantee you £100 profit per week every week, If they say they can they are crooks are liars. What I said was that Keith could probably garantee him long term profits much better than £100 per week but not every week.
That was the answer I gave, that is the truth. I might as well go posting on another forum asking if someone has got the secret to eternal life or Have you some kind of Spray that will make me irresitable to women. Hayzee is asking for something that don't exist and we told him that - So where is the problem, Hayzee likes straight talking and he got it without any B.S.

[e55exboi]

Hes already had the answer. One week hel lose virtually all of it the next hel win thousands. Your going to allocate that £700 to the systems then i take it cos thats where he wants the answers to come from i presume

[presto]

and also to get a set (£100) per week sound's like it will lead to loss chasing.
i would prefer to win £200 on week and win £50 the next - (which wouldnt be £100 per week)

[tophatter]

Hayzee is looking at it back to front, inside out, upside down, topsy turvy. He is talking about laying out £700 a week, what he should be talking about is laying out £700 on a bank. My losers bank was £200 two years ago, it is now over £8000. However It has decreased Two grand so far this month. Doing it in proportion to what Hayzee asked it would Be well over 30K after 58 weeks. An AVERAGE of £517.00 per week. But just because he wants £100 a week profit every week to come out at a two year profit of just over £10,000 profit it means that is not good enough? He is asking for a smaller profit and in a way that is actually impossible to achieve. Im suprised really that people have not layed into him, because when he has been answered by people who have better things to do, he has snarled at them. To be blunt the question he is asking is stupid.

[e55exboi]

Whats your liability goona be TH when you hit a billion?! :yikes: :yikes:

[Workshy]

:clp I love it when a mod tells it how it is.

[Workshy]

Whats your liability goona be TH when you hit a billion?! :yikes: :yikes:

Getting caught by his supermodel wife banging all the prossies :laugh

[tophatter]

I aint gonna hit a billion Essex :)

I am actually not far away from wanting to stop increaseing Liability and starting to cream off profits - my god did you just see that save david james made!!! - I doubt I will ever lay a horse to more than £800 liability and most will be lower than that.

[tophatter]

Getting caught by his supermodel wife banging all the prossies :laugh

More like getting caught by my Prozzie wife banging all the supermodels. It is only fair in this day and age that the wife makes a living instead off just living off me aint it? :wink

You can take the boy out of the gutter but not the gutter out of the boy :D

[bigcumba]

Have you some kind of Spray that will make me irresitable to women.

I usually find a wee dab of WD-40 works wonders... :yikes: :laugh

[tophatter]

:clp I love it when a mod tells it how it is.

You know me Workshy - I always tell it how it is, and i did before I was a mod and I will continue to do so. Some might not like what they hear but its the truth. The main part of been a mod is trying to help people and the advise I have given Hayzee is just that.

[MarcusMel]

Superglue the clubs is fun:yikes:

[podtog]

I think Hayzee has read to many mailshots and promises of profits everyweek guaranteed and now thinks this club should be promising the same even though it wouldnt be true, now longterm thats a different matter... but a chance you take, I know where I,ll be staying.

[icebreaker]

- and the advise I have given Hayzee is just that.

But, respectfully, that is not the advice that he asked for!! He wanted to know was it possible starting now to make £100 p/week etc., etc, and your advice was to join W2W and wait for a coupla years. His (Hayzee's) query is a different kettle of fish entirely.

Fair enough, the general consensus on here (including your's, TH) is that it is impossible. I'll accept that as an answer to the question posed. But, I do hope you will also understand my position when I reckon that it should be "do-able". After all, if people with quite some experience of betting and horses cannot get up a 1/7 profit, then we may as well throw our hats at it. It's for that reason I want to prove to myself (by posting on the DAILY RACING BETS thread starting tomorrow) that it can be done.

[mathare]

To be fair though Ice - Hayzee was asking for a guaranteed income (or that is how it seemed) of £100 a week. No-one can guarantee an income from gambling, by the very nature of a gamble nothing is for certain.

W2W offers the chance to make money long term but anyone who joins tomorrow will not be guaranteed to be £100 richer next week. No service can offer that - at least not offer it and actually deliver!

[susanwells]

I`ve just read thrugh this long and complicated and sometimes rather rude thread.. and one thing strikes me and makes me slightly sad.. No one - least of all hayzee - has mentioned love of racing for its own sake. As people here know, I go to races quite a bit and when there never ever bet - I just get carried away when some horse fkutters its eyelashes at me and change the mind I have sensibly made up taking W2W advice before I left home.. so on the racecourse I just do a placepot to tiny stakes for fun and that`s it.. but I love, love going.. the whole thing, the places, the horses, atmos. day out, people watching...
and it needn`t be expensive either..
Hyazee might as well be playing roulette - having said that mind, casinos are fascinating places. Very very interesting watching how people behave in them..
but, back to the nags... work slowly and systematically at the system bets from here - or join another service, whatever... but go and enjoy the races sometime as well. Thats what it`s all about..
btw, a friend of mine who is manager of a Casino in France told me that people lose their money for several reasons. But the main one is not following the golden rule to quit while yu`re ahead.. he says every day he watches people win a lot of money.. and just hand it all back steadily for the next half hour or hour or so.. the one who are pros wait for a win, and then leave. The fault is always in having won, say, 100, and thinking you can then turn it into 500... instead of which, you1ll go home with 0...
so with this system betting on horses...you are looking to make quite a lot from the start.. whereas you could go steadily from making, say, a fiver a week, to your 100..
I do, however, know of a service which has made genuine steady profits for the past 18 months for a relatively modest monthly charge...but those who don`t make that along with them are the ones who don`t follow the staking plan very strictly, don`tfollow the rules, try to get just that little bit more by breaking them.. and hey presto.
:hearty

[mathare]

To me casinos are very different though Susan. With knowledge and advice you can turn the tables in your favour when it comes to racing and poker. With roulette and blackjack the best advice in the world can only minimise the casino's edge.

The bookie may not have an overround on every bet - the casino does

[tophatter]

Well we answered that query though didnt we? The only difference in what he was asking and what system betting is offering is the timescale. He can easily make £100 per week ON AVERAGE but to ask for that every week no matter what horses are running, no matter how many selections you can actually bet on, no matter the prices of the horse - is I repeat impossible.

What you can do is build up a Bank of about £10K and if you like take £100 a week out, as that would not affect the long term money making potential of it. It can't be done not on a weekly basis over a period of time, Strike rate just don't allow it.

[tophatter]

Anyway thats my last comment on the matter. Hayzee has what he needs now. Im not even saying the only way you could do the possible route is by joining here - in my belief it is the best way - but its not the only way. Any system that proves Profit to level stakes over at least a year and several hundred selctions will do the trick. However if you find one that garantees to profit EVERY week then and returns the kind of profit you are talking about let me know:)

[MarcusMel]

Hi Ice.

An experimental Lay system was done by silax. His rules were simple. Pick a random horse from the font three in the betting and lay it. Can't remember if he just layed the favorite in small fields. He used stopping after a profit of around 10-20points as a staking plan. The system was quite successful too. However no matter what you do when you start dealing with large numbers almost every combination of bad luck will eventully turn up. THIS is why there can be no guarantees.

[podtog]

If there was a GUARANTEED 100 pound profit every week for 30 pounds a month dont you think everyman and his gran would be doing it, you do have to work at it and put some effort in, also if it was that easy icebreaker then you shouldnt have to much trouble achieving it just put them up for a couple of years.

[Fadetoblack]

Take two people, a non gambler and a gambler. Over the course of one year who do you think will be up money? One thing that annoys me about some gamblers sometimes - when they've reached the point that they're actually hoping for the next win just to break even. Surely it would be better to just not bet in the first place. I think that a lot of gamblers, myself included have lost an appreciation for money. We can lose 50 quid and forget that that could have fed a whole family...or even given ya a good night out. Un my own situation I learned a long time ago what tyoe of betting is best for me. I don't bet on the internet because I think the convenience can be a little dangerous and just lead to you bet on some races that when you were studying the form you never thought you would get involved in. The don't go into bookies when the races are on also...same principle applies. I look at the races the night before and place my bets in the morning..usually only on good race days. The down side here of course is that I miss out on big gambles but it's the small price I pay for this personal discipline. I hope this hasnt been irrelevant to the discussion...know I'm an amateur but I bet on horses cause I like the added thrill that it gives the sports that I enjoy, I know that I'm letting myself open to some some criticism from you guys for saying that but that's just me and the way I look at it.

[MarcusMel]

Just one point FTB. Going into the bookies and making the bets you planed and looking at the systems and just placing those are the same thing. As for the big gambles there nothing special and I would not worry about missing them.

[Merlin]

Anyone who runs their own business will tell you - there are no income guarantees from any venture........:yikes: OR ANY JOB..........:yikes:

If you got offered a job with Tesco(God forbid, sorry Mark:yikes:)......you have a salary of say 17k, they will pay you 326 quid a week............ you think this is guaranteed :yikes:- it actually aint.......:yikes:...........

They may for example be using a bank loan to pay your salary.......

The current(ongoing) pension crisis is another example of the impossibility of guaranteed income.........:yikes:

[susanwells]

I have never ever in my entire life been employed by anyone, except a couple of holiday jobs as a student.. I have been self employed as a writer since I left University. I had only enough money to get by on at the beginning, and a very understanding bank manager who had faith in me (where would you find him now ?)...
Over the years, my income has gone up steadily but it is never guaranteed and always erratic . but my God it keeps you getting up in the morning, knowing nothing is guaranteed unless you make it happen.
People sometimes ask me why I got married and I say 'I needed a regular salary.'
But in its way it is a gamble.. for e.g. my novels are all in print in paperback, half of them with Penguin. I get royalties from them every 6 months backdated. Now last June Penguin moved warehouses, for some daft reason, into a vast state of the art new place in the Midlands. only someone forgot to check whether the new place`s conmputer system was compatible with the one they use for putting in the orders.. consequence, for about 8 months there has been melt down and most books have suffered...they still haven`t sorted it. I am expecting my May royalty cheque to be down by about 80%..
and we are all in the same boat. It`s a gamble.. yet I`d never do anything else, never had a a regret. Just want to kick the ::swear ::swear ::swear of the people who were paid a lot of money to get the computer systems sorted and were asleep at the time.
:hearty

[Merlin]

People sometimes ask me why I got married and I say 'I needed a regular salary.'
:hearty

Wheres that Bitch Germaine Greer when you need her.....:laugh

[e55exboi]

Anyone who runs their own business will tell you - there are no income guarantees from any venture........:yikes: OR ANY JOB..........:yikes:

If you got offered a job with Tesco(God forbid, sorry Mark:yikes:)......you have a salary of say 17k, they will pay you 326 quid a week............ you think this is guaranteed :yikes:- it actually aint.......:yikes:...........

They may for example be using a bank loan to pay your salary.......

The current(ongoing) pension crisis is another example of the impossibility of guaranteed income.........:yikes:
:laugh £17k at tescos? Even the managers dont get that!

[icebreaker]

Rightio, then,............. here's a question: Why is everyone so fixated on the idea of showing a profit over a year? According to some on here, a system/method might be losing shedloads in October/November but as long as it shows some slight profit to bank at the end of a year well, erm, that's okay then!!! Why? What is so fundamental about a twelve month period. Is it something to do with quantum physics, or because it takes the earth a year to revolve around the sun? A year is just a human concept of time after all.

Because here is the dilemma, lads .............. if the system you use or the level of adroitness of your selection picking is profitable, then you should be showing profit weekly. Personally, I aim to make a set profit every DAY (however small that target might be). Forget this yearly thing, that's just BS. If a week is a long time in politics, then a year is a lifetime in gambling.

[Fadetoblack]

My own opinion there would be that some days are just not right to getting involved with racing. I do agree with ya in a way though. I'd be hoping for a weekly profit.

[icebreaker]

If there was a GUARANTEED 100 pound profit every week for 30 pounds a month dont you think everyman and his gran would be doing it,

Just for clarification, podtog, Hayzee was talking about shelling out £700 a week to earn that £100. Not 30 a month.

EDIT>>> Ah yeah, I realise now what you meant, podtog. You were referring to the monthly subscription of £30, yes? Sorry for my misunderstanding.

[presto]

Rightio, then,............. here's a question: Why is everyone so fixated on the idea of showing a profit over a year? According to some on here, a system/method might be losing shedloads in October/November but as long as it shows some slight profit to bank at the end of a year well, erm, that's okay then!!! Why? What is so fundamental about a twelve month period. Is it something to do with quantum physics, or because it takes the earth a year to revolve around the sun? A year is just a human concept of time after all.

Because here is the dilemma, lads .............. if the system you use or the level of adroitness of your selection picking is profitable, then you should be showing profit weekly. Personally, I aim to make a set profit every DAY (however small that target might be). Forget this yearly thing, that's just BS. If a week is a long time in politics, then a year is a lifetime in gambling.

we only use 1 year as an example. this is because the systems work long term, sometimes they have good weeks / months. sometimes they have bad weeks / months. but over a long enough period of time (eg 1 year) they will show a profit.

[tophatter]

A year is mentioned because it is a cycle of time long enough to even out strike rate. it could easily be 9 months 13 monts 406 days, but a year is just an easier term and a good landmark.

I promise you that no one can make profit every week unless they are betting hundreds of bets to a known profitable system that week. Turn your question on its head icebreaker - Why are you wanting to make profit in a week, again that is just a measurement of time. Profit is profit no matter how long it takes to make. We can measure roughly how much profit we will achieve using ROI and Strike rate when system betting. gambling isnt like a job when you get paid for trying, Gambling is actually designed to take money off 99% of us and if you can profit over a year you have done the business. A week is a long time in politics, it is no time in racing.

[icebreaker]

Tophatter,
With respect, you have framed a certain mind-set for yourself that neither I nor anyone would be capable of dissuading you from. You are locked into this concept of willingness to wait for a year to achieve profit. But ...... why? Why a year? If the betting methods you use are profitable over a year, then (for safety sake and confidence-boosting alone) they should be profitable over a week. Look, I'm not knocking your procedures ....... to each his own. A classic case of the Tortoise and the Hare, I guess.




I promise you that no one can make profit every week unless they are betting hundreds of bets to a known profitable system that week.
Or by doing only ONE winning 1/2 bet a week with no losers! What law of gambling states that you have to do hundreds of bets weekly to show a profit? In fact, knowledgeable experts in the betting field will advise that selectivity in bets is the key to profitability.

You ask: "Why are you wanting to make profit in a week, again that is just a measurement of time. Profit is profit no matter how long it takes to make." Well, I suppose it's down to one's mind-set like I said at the beginning. But ask anyone which they would go for if given the choice -- a guaranteed profit at the end of each week or the end of the year. I know what the majority would plump for!.

[tophatter]

Yes Icebreaker I would go for the weekly one too but It is impossible. If you could make a garanteed £100 from a £700 outlay a week then why not bet £7000 and make £1000 garanteed a week, it can't happen. The choice don't exist, that is my point.

To simplify it Hayzee is talking about making £100 a week from £100 bet a day - yes? One loser will put him £100 down and he then has to make £200 to do the target and with just £600 left. The kind of horses I am guessing you are talking about are 1/5 shots you would need 10 to come in - there wont be 10 in a week! If you are talking about gambling on 1/2 shots then again the losers will come else I would just bet on 1/2 shots. You would still need four succesful bets for every loser you had and a 80% Strike rate with the added preasure of needing to pick at least 2 a week, 4 if you have a loser, 8 if you have two losers. It is a non-starter and that is just on horses as long as 1/2, the amount of winners for 1/4 and 1/5 shots needed would rocket and make strike rate required even higher. It is a non-starter

[presto]

Tophatter,
With respect, you have framed a certain mind-set for yourself that neither I nor anyone would be capable of dissuading you from. You are locked into this concept of willingness to wait for a year to achieve profit. (ice)

A year is mentioned because it is a cycle of time long enough to even out strike rate. it could easily be 9 months 13 monts 406 days, but a year is just an easier term and a good landmark. (TH)

i dont think TH is locked into this type of mindset (just read his post). but like he and i keep saying, long term they will make money. but there cannot be a guarante of £100 each week.

if you want to go for a £100 guaranteed each week then 'google' martingale staking plan - and see how far you get.

[MarcusMel]

The difference between one selective bet and 100's of small bets should be obvious. In a word stability. 100's of small bets you have a broad base to base your profitabity on. With selective bets to achieve the same goal the risk is greater. As you say - to each there own - risk a lot for a big gain in the short term or risk many small amouts for a big gain over a long time.

[Fadetoblack]

I think that martingale stakin system killed this particular venture....

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24718

[icebreaker]

Again, we are presuming a whole sheaf of bets during the week in question. It ain't necessarily so. Hayzees bank of £700 would allow him to do one 1/2 shot gaining him £350 (almost his target for the month) for that week. At least, that was my intention when I set up my separate Betfair bank. And gambling need not be limited to horse-racing either ......... plenty of opportunities out there in Laying footie spreads and other sports.

Anyway, upon reflection, I don't think I will proceed with my £700 experiment tomorrow ......... I'm thinking now it could be construed as an exercise in vanity or smugness. And if it was a failure I don't believe I could live with all the "told-you-so's". :) :) :).

And now it's way past my beddy-time. So 'night all and happy punting.

[tophatter]

[QUOTE=icebreaker]Tophatter,
Look, I'm not knocking your procedures ....... to each his own. A classic case of the Tortoise and the Hare, I guess.
QUOTE]

I know you are not knocking my procedures Icebreaker and this has turned into a very interesting thread. I have to say though with the Tortoise and the hare we all know who come out on top don't we?

The thing is this the Tortoise and the hare with the hare running through a minefield. I reckon you would do well to last two weeks before failing to hit that weekly target. Paper trade it and try it, it will do no harm and will be an interesting and worthwhile experiment for the forum and cost you nowt

[tophatter]

Again, we are presuming a whole sheaf of bets during the week in question. It ain't necessarily so. Hayzees bank of £700 would allow him to do one 1/2 shot gaining him £350 (almost his target for the month) for .

But that is no different from what we were saying earlier :doh

You were saying £100 garanteed EVERY week. We were saying we could not garantee £100 every week but some weeks would be higher and othes would be losing weeks but we would average more over the year than £100 per week using a £700 bank rather than a £700 weekly stake. Using what you were saying making £350 one week and losing £100 or even making just £50 the next week would constitute failure. That is what this whole discussion is about.

[presto]

I think that martingale stakin system killed this particular venture....

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24718

i was just using it as an example FTB, as it set's targets.
i wouldn't reccomend it as it is the easy way to bust the bank, exactly the same reason why i would reccomend long term profit as opposed to guarantee'd (risk of going broke) profit.

[MarcusMel]

So after Beef or Salmon the next bet is.....:D?

[Fadetoblack]

NEWTONIAN 2.20 southwell tomorrow. Good thing. :D

And I know presto...i just wanted to show ya that thread cause it ties in nicely with this conversation.

[presto]

these are my figures for january - note after 11 days i was in the red

[presto]

i have removed the attachment as it is a bit to big, but it goes to show that good things come to thoes who wait. - by the way that was a good month. one month i lost £5k+. that is often why the lays are called a rollercoaster of a ride - lots of ups and downs, no straight line £100 per week.

[MarcusMel]

Lets look at a few figures. In a week during the winter/Jumps season you have about 100 races to choose from. If you bet in every race you would be looking to make an average of 1pound per race. Is this possible? So now we have to choose some method of getting that kind of return. Now here is the nasty bit the figures for the agverage we know like 30-35% favorites win will fluctuate dramtically with only 100 bets being considered. We do however get a slightly better view with larger numbers.

Please don't ask me to put a number to a 'large number' - you just know that the more figures you have the more confidence you have.

[Workshy]

Not going to address the books people are writing, but...

I think if you want weekly profits you would look at method bets and/or some kind of huge bank, small ROI chasing system (not for me although I'm sure it could work if you were happy with a 100.1% ROI week to week 'guaranteed', if you have a bank that big, why gamble?).

For a more secure, longer term approach, systems are the way, through analysis of previous trends you know what to expect, you know how to work them. Granted Keith does, for the most part, do this for you but I feel safer knowing that even after a bad day at the office, my bank will be a chunk higher this time next year. What better way than to measure a banks progress than a year? Salaries are generally quoted that way and it gives a good sample for how it performs.

[Win2Win]

and a very understanding bank manager who had faith in me (where would you find him now ?)...
SUSAN!!!! What did you do to him??? :laugh

Right here's the ANSWER in B&W.......
Gambling is like a salesmans job when you first start. Due to the ups & downs of SR/Form you are technically on commission. So times business is good, sometimes bad, and the kids go hungry.

Next....
A year is taken as a marker, becasue BUSINESS gives out YEARLY results to the stock market, not daily, weekly....And as professioanl gambling has to be run like a business, that time scale makes scense. Also if I use a week as a marker, and average one selection a week, I'd have 100% one week, and 0% then nexe. That's great at showing you the true SR so you know what your doing :doh

Whether you are system betting, or method betting, they both work the same in terms of long term SR/Profit with the normal fluctuations you would expect in any business. Some weeks horse do not run to form, to the finances drop. Take business, pre-Xmas profits can drop considerably, yet they don't worry, and they know it'll come back in during the January sales. Same with betting, and as I know the most likely SR in advance, I know from past data when this upturn will be.

Last.....
In answer to the question, YES you can make £100 a week. But you will not at the start as you need to build up a betting bank (businesses do not start with £0 do they?), and until that reaches a set amount, any milking off the top will damage your chances of a stable £100+ a week income.

If you start with say a £10,000 bank, then you have no problem taking the £100 a week off, as long as you have a source/method/system that will supply you with profitable selections over the long term.

Epilog......!!!!
The reason why 99.7% of punters LOSE money is they think they can make a profit HEAR AND NOW. If it was that easy, why is the percentage so low?

Story.....
I know someone how devised a system in the early 90's. He built up a bank worth £20,000 form £100 in two years (not one week, and this gut wan't a pro, but new how the maths/stats worked). He had found the 'Holy Grail'

He was then living off the profits, and jacked in a warehouse managers job, and lived like that with increasing profits on a yearly basis. Very happy, and it only took him 5 minutes to find the qualifers, then he would spend the rest of the day in front of the TV drinking and smoking (the life of a propunter eh??).

In 1997 racing changed (mainly thanks to the BHB), and the system started to fail. It no longer produced profits, but he kept backing it knowing the upturn was around the corner. And despite my advice that based on current trends that upturn would not happen, he continued.

By 1999 he was an alcoholic, no longer betting, as he couldn't get a bet on, he owed the bookies more than £40,000, and on £44 a week dole, had no hope of paying it off.

He killed himself in 2001. Leaving a wife and two kids.

Morale.....
You can not guarantee profits, you need to work hard to stay ahead of the game. This is why I spend 2/3 a day on research alone, never mind the days racing. I method bet, race watch, system bet, keep contacts, so if a failure happens, it has little effect on the whole 'business'.

If that doesn't answer your questions, you will never be a successful gambler.........

[Onlyforfun]

To get back to Hayzees original question.

Pimp for your sister like all the other East End lads! :D

[e55exboi]

Does this mean the systems on this site will eventually become useless and how will we know before all the profits are lost? For example, how do u know an upturn will come in media fc when it could be the downturn where it is no longer successful ever again? :yikes:

[vegyjones]

Does this mean the systems on this site will eventually become useless and how will we know before all the profits are lost? For example, how do u know an upturn will come in media fc when it could be the downturn where it is no longer successful ever again? :yikes:That's why members pay for Keith's systems, because he knows when they stop working and changes them, so we don't have all the worry... just the profit's :D

[silax]

if one system was failing badly it could possibly be the system has broken and needs refreshing if on the other hand as we are seeing the majority of keiths systems on downers its proberbly just due to the time of the year and correction of stats weather,whatever, the banks and correct staking should take care of this while we await the upturn

[MarcusMel]

My stats for Feb on the members systems say its Feb that has the problem from the year 2000.

[Workshy]

Does this mean the systems on this site will eventually become useless and how will we know before all the profits are lost? For example, how do u know an upturn will come in media fc when it could be the downturn where it is no longer successful ever again? :yikes:

Ummm possible but from my understanding, Keith does system audits twice a year so checks whether trends are changing. Also, he checks the rules to what has changed in the BHB little mixing pot, obviously he knows what to look for so this is another little assurance. Nothing is certain though. Thats why you should run multiple banks.

[Onlyforfun]

... and ultimately work towards using your own systems as you will know the rules therefore can anticipate any likely effects of rule changes / weather / odds fluctuations etc and monitor them to make sure they are not affected.

[vegyjones]

All my systems have a simple rule...
At the first sight of a loser... dump the system! :laugh

[e55exboi]

So your after the 100% SR system then Veg? Ooo Good luck :D

[vegyjones]

So your after the 100% SR system then Veg? Ooo Good luck :D100 % minimum :laugh

[Fadetoblack]

NEWTONIAN 2.20 southwell tomorrow. Good thing. :D

And I know presto...i just wanted to show ya that thread cause it ties in nicely with this conversation.


I have to highlight this for no other reason than to make me believe I can start picking winners again.

[MarcusMel]

Of course you Can FTB just make sure you don't go above 2% of your current Bank.

Its a reasonable way bet.

[hayzee]

100+ replies,900+ views,
well I'm certainly glad I mentioned a hundred quid a week,shows then what all those on here are really getting if that seems impossible making 35 bets of a score or 7 at a ton and they still think it's an impossibility.
Thanks all for the views opinions and feedback,let's face it then,if you're prepared to lay out 7 hundred notes a week to earn a ton and that seems an outrage,seems to me that there are very few people on here really getting a worthwhile few bob from the game.
A special thank you to MS Wells,an inspiration in fact,if you've earned a living from writing for all these years,it's a great example of what people are prepared to pay for.

[bennyboy]

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif
I wondered where you'd got to

[tophatter]

I dont want to labour this point Hayzee but all I was saying is that no one could garantee earning a ton a week every week which is what you asked for. What I could garantee though is over a course of 2 years from a £700 bank I could and would comfortabably make over £20,000.
I hate talking actual monetery figures because it is all relative and is very personal but I can assure you I intend to make at least double my annual salary from one system this year which I started with £200 two years ago and if you think earning a garanteed £100 a week every week over 3 years giving you £15,000 (which I repeat is impossible anyway) is the holy grail then good luck to you.

One thing I do agree with though is it has been a very active thread and caused a good debate with the short term/long term argument.

[tophatter]

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif
I wondered where you'd got to

I didnt, I knew he would be back, the old boy loves us really! :laugh

[e55exboi]

People on this site have got massive bank accounts Hayzee, theyre getting alot more than a few bob, only some weeks theyre losing hundreds and others winning thousands. Does that get thru to you or are u still a little hazey about it all! :geek

[tophatter]

And all of us who have those large banks have built them up from a couple of hundred quid or so in 18 months to 2 years. If I only make £100 a week on average this year, i will be disapointed. Lets just say it will be closer to £1000 a week come the year end. But and it is a big but I have to be prepared to decrease by quite a few grand during bad runs. However with a bank made entirely from profit that is no problem is it? I can't bust my bank now it is impossible. Im not going to add anymore about sums involved or potential profit as it looks like boasting - but if you think that by having to work at something a couple of years before making a wedge is a waste of time my advice to you is to quite frankly quit gambling, because I promise you what you are looking for does not exist, and any short term plan will have a 100% failure rate.

[Workshy]

100+ replies,900+ views,
well I'm certainly glad I mentioned a hundred quid a week,shows then what all those on here are really getting if that seems impossible making 35 bets of a score or 7 at a ton and they still think it's an impossibility.
Thanks all for the views opinions and feedback,let's face it then,if you're prepared to lay out 7 hundred notes a week to earn a ton and that seems an outrage,seems to me that there are very few people on here really getting a worthwhile few bob from the game.
A special thank you to MS Wells,an inspiration in fact,if you've earned a living from writing for all these years,it's a great example of what people are prepared to pay for.

Great conclusion, now you're done here, you can leave. Cab fare wont be a problem. :wiggle: Tatty bye!

[MarcusMel]

...,if you're prepared to lay out 7 hundred notes a week to earn a ton and that seems an outrage,seems to me that there are very few people on here really getting a worthwhile few bob from the game.....
Tell me one bank or any other investment scheem that can achieve the same return for your money and I'd say your remark that it is an outrage was justified, however without that info this must be the stupidist remark I have ever read on this forum.



A special thank you to MS Wells,an inspiration in fact,if you've earned a living from writing for all these years,it's a great example of what people are prepared to pay for. :doh I'm gobsmaked (not easily done) 'if you have earned a living' - Others on the forum have read her books, she would gain nothing by lying about it would she. Therefore your second remark is ment to be rude to the people who are trying to help you.

I for one will not bother with you until you decide to be a little more curtius and polite.

[hayzee]

TH,
thanks for your understanding and constructive input.
I truly believe that you know this has been a genuine trip for me,I'm not here to cause hassle,I do unfortunately react to people like workshy,he seems so far up himself.
I have made money from betting horses for a couple of years only,after many years of either losing or barely breaking even.
I love kiss systems,ironically they can be the best earners,although paradoxically I can tend to make things more complicated,maybe out of a sense that nothing should come that easy.
When I say made money,I usually only bet in tenners,or multiples thereof,making 50 in a week is good,but I've nothing to prove and it's peanuts I know.
All I thought was if I stepped up the bets and 700 notes a week for say 10 weeks I could stand,I would expect a return of a ton a week,not guaranteed(what is in life?)but thereabouts over the period,but as an amateur I would like the work done for me and be prepared to pay for that.
Gambling is an interest and a challenge for me,I am still learning as I said.
W2W said(and I don't quote) that losing for some could be put down as an entertainment,I'd rather shove matchsticks up my toenails(I'm sure there are many on here that would help).
OK I was wrong and should not expect such a return,I've asked the question and had the replies,thanks again everyone.

[Workshy]

Great conclusion, now you're done here, you can leave. Cab fare wont be a problem. :wiggle: Tatty bye!

Thanks for rep D. :)

[Win2Win]

Would you like some more Worky? :) Any particular colour.....red maybe :laugh

I make more than £100 a week :D But I lost over £10,000 last week :doh

[susanwells]

Thank you MARCUS for jumping to my defence. I was so shaken by that remark that I couldn`t reply. Then I read it again and thought maybe it wasn`t 'if' as in 'but I think you`re lying..'
I have no intention of going into the details of my long writing career and past/present income though I could.
What I will say is that, as in gambling as a pro, writing as a pro is a very uncertain career - very very few people are able to earn a living, let alone a very good one, from it over many years. That I have done so is down to
1. Hard work - every day, bar the years when my children were small and I didn`t write so regularly and my income took a huge cut as a result, but so what ? That`s what a husband with a salary is for :yikes:
2. It is down, quite simply, to luck as well.. For example, three of my books are set as GCSE and A level texts by one exam board or other all the time but that is luck - someone happened to find them, read them, and convince their fellows that they ought to be set. They could wlel not have discovered them - hell ofa lot of books out there.
3. Biggest piece of luck was this.
One day a man called Stephen Mallatratt was browsing among the books a the airport waiting to board a flight to Greece and his hol. He picked up my book The Woman in Black, which by lucky chance, was stocked there. On the beach he read it and like a bolt from the blue - almost literally, he said - he saw how it could be adapted for the stage. As he was a resting actor who had dabbled in playwriting, he went back to Scarborough, where he was acting, and told the resident Director that he had a book that would make a great ghost play for a short run over Christmas at the theatre there. He adapted it, the adaptation was brilliant, .. and the play has been running in the West End now for 16 years and plays all over the world.
That is the biggest stroke of luck I could have had... luck and his skill. OK and my book but it was luck that he found it on the airport.
Other than that, Hayzee, it`s down to work.. and the Grace of God.
And I am very fortunate that people like what I write. There are a lot of writers out there, far more than readers..
I`m not saying any more but I am touched that someone should have defended me so staunchly.
:hearty

[Onlyforfun]

Sounds to me like you made your own luck Susan, a lot of people would have given up 'cos the world wasn't throwing a living at them. I do wonder if the current crop of tennagers will be able to do what you've done.


Think "I went to work, yeah, and my boss, yeah, he said do some work, yeah, and I said, yeah like, get off my case man, yeah....."

[Jonny2621]

Boy, there are some rude people appear on this forum from time to time :(

[lowe1]

Thank you MARCUS for jumping to my defence. I was so shaken by that remark that I couldn`t reply. Then I read it again and thought maybe it wasn`t 'if' as in 'but I think you`re lying..'
I have no intention of going into the details of my long writing career and past/present income though I could.
What I will say is that, as in gambling as a pro, writing as a pro is a very uncertain career - very very few people are able to earn a living, let alone a very good one, from it over many years. That I have done so is down to
1. Hard work - every day, bar the years when my children were small and I didn`t write so regularly and my income took a huge cut as a result, but so what ? That`s what a husband with a salary is for :yikes:
2. It is down, quite simply, to luck as well.. For example, three of my books are set as GCSE and A level texts by one exam board or other all the time but that is luck - someone happened to find them, read them, and convince their fellows that they ought to be set. They could wlel not have discovered them - hell ofa lot of books out there.
3. Biggest piece of luck was this.
One day a man called Stephen Mallatratt was browsing among the books a the airport waiting to board a flight to Greece and his hol. He picked up my book The Woman in Black, which by lucky chance, was stocked there. On the beach he read it and like a bolt from the blue - almost literally, he said - he saw how it could be adapted for the stage. As he was a resting actor who had dabbled in playwriting, he went back to Scarborough, where he was acting, and told the resident Director that he had a book that would make a great ghost play for a short run over Christmas at the theatre there. He adapted it, the adaptation was brilliant, .. and the play has been running in the West End now for 16 years and plays all over the world.
That is the biggest stroke of luck I could have had... luck and his skill. OK and my book but it was luck that he found it on the airport.
Other than that, Hayzee, it`s down to work.. and the Grace of God.
And I am very fortunate that people like what I write. There are a lot of writers out there, far more than readers..
I`m not saying any more but I am touched that someone should have defended me so staunchly.
:hearty

susan just had a look at your website nice interesting site

[Win2Win]

How many people give up on becoming a pro-gamber? 99.73% is my rough guess :laugh

It's a 6am to 10pm job during night racing, and with no breaks during that period, your doing 112 hrs a week!!!!

[Win2Win]

Spam Spam Spam Spam :D :wink

[e55exboi]

Im not one of em Ooo

[silax]

A special thank you to MS Wells,an inspiration in fact,if you've earned a living from writing for all these years,it's a great example of what people are prepared to pay for.
thanks hayzee one of the funniest things i've read for a while.
don't take offence susan i just thought it was very funny and humour like that is priceless

[e55exboi]

Im not one of em Ooo Rude people i mean :D

[e55exboi]

What am i doing cocking up these posts! :splapme

[icebreaker]

Well, I still believe it can be done (i.e., generating an income of £100 on betting £700 per week). I know everyone is bored by now with my previous posts on this topic, but, if Tophatter can have his last word on the topic then so can I :) . And the last word is: if you have a successful system or method of selection, then there is no earthly reason why it should not be successful over a week as it is over a year.

BTW, Susan, I honestly think that Hayzee meant no criticism of your integrity or your work. It was just an unfortunate use of the word "if". Read the sentence again but this time substitute "assuming", "accepting", or a whole raft of other words for "if" and the phrase takes on a different meaning entirely.

[Win2Win]

then there is no earthly reason why it should not be successful over a week as it is over a year.


:doh Their is......What if one week has no qualifiers for the sytem, does £100 just appear!!!! Or all the qualifiers lose in one week, do you get paid £100 from the bookies out of pity???

[icebreaker]

Of course, it would also have been a great help if he had ommitted the phrase: .............


it's a great example of what people are prepared to pay for.

:) :) :)

[e55exboi]

:doh Their is......What if one week has no qualifiers for the sytem, does £100 just appear!!!! Or all the qualifiers lose in one week, do you get paid £100 from the bookies out of pity??? I wish, they would have given me £1500 by now
:wink

[podtog]

Icebreaker, Hayzee are you the same person?
Without wanting to sound disrespectful I think you will be destined to remain losers with the kind of gambling attitude you/ both appear to have, everyone has tried helping and giving you sound advice if you dont take heed then I think you have a very slim chance of making gambling pay, hope Im wrong but there you go.

[icebreaker]

I did say "if you have a SUCCESSFUL system or method of selection". To me a successful system or method is one that generates bets (that win) ......... not something that doesn't give ANY bets for a week or more. What would you call a system that gives NO bets for a year? An unsuccessful one! Same for one that gives no bets over a week, IMHO. In all my posts to this thread I have been talking about SUCCESSFUL systems or methods.

[podtog]

Icebreaker your nearly there mate, you just need to drop the "weekly" bit from your betting mentality.

[e55exboi]

Some of the SUCCESSFUL systems on the members page have gone over a week without a selection. If you were a member youd know that
A Keith style post from me there :D

[MarcusMel]

Icebreaker - Every wondered why there are traffic jams on a strech of motorway for no apparant reason? Cars controlled by semi-intellegent people who hate being stuck in traffic yet jams appear. Why do cars clump together in queues on the back roads?

Its the same with betting systems random events piling up together that create a bad run. Overall a wining system will win but it will still be subjected to the same problems that cars and other random system suffer from.

[John]

Icebreaker - quality... not quantity...

[e55exboi]

Icebreaker - Every wondered why there are traffic jams on a strech of motorway for no apparant reason? Cars controlled by semi-intellegent people who hate being stuck in traffic yet jams appear. Why do cars clump together in queues on the back roads?

Its the same with betting systems random events piling up together that create a bad run. Overall a wining system will win but it will still be subjected to the same problems that cars and other random system suffer from.

Apparently thats due to people driving too FAST yes fast not slow. Where people zoom up to the driver in front then slam on the anchors causes a domino effect, by time its got miles back, they become more bunched to a standstill!

[icebreaker]

Icebreaker, Hayzee are you the same person?


Heh heh, Podtog ........ emphatically NO!

You tell me to drop the "weekly" bit from my mentality ........... I would respectfully ask why is everyone on here so fixated with the "yearly" mentality??? If yiz are in current employment do you get paid weekly or monthly? Very few of you (unless there are a coupla Company DIrectors amongst you) are paid annually. But when it comes to betting you are all quite content to wait until year end to show a profit.??? All Hayzee asked in his original post was "Can anyone advise how to make £100 per week". The answers offered were "join up, do your "apprenticeship" and maybe, just maybe, after 12 months you will show a profit". I offered a different view -- one that I think should be quite possible if you have a SUCCESSFUL SYSTEM OR METHOD OF SELECTION.


ESSEXBOI .......... personally I would not label a system that fails to deliver a single bet in a week as SUCCESFUL. Lemme ask you: how would you describe a system that didn't give a single bet over a year? Successful or unsuccessful?

[icebreaker]

Marcus .......... your traffic-jam analogy is of no comparative worth!

The traffic (either on the motorway or the country lane) gets moving again before a week has elapsed. They don't have to wait until the end of the year. :)

[podtog]

To have a system gurantee a profit every week that system would have to be near a 100% strike rate.
Would you rather have a guranteed 100 pounds a week or win 300 in week 1, lose 100 in week 2, lose 200 in week 3 and win 600 in week 4.
Your way you win 400
2nd way you win 600 but you only won 2 weeks out of 4, I know what Id rather have.

[MarcusMel]

By combining lots of systems together based on factors independant of any other system and check that against each month of the year (during eveing raceing 1000 possible bets available, during winter only 500) it may be possible. The alternate is to have a MASSIVE amount of capitol available and use a chasing losses staking plan, but then one might have a problem placing a 100,000,000 to win 100 pounds.

[e55exboi]

Heh heh, Podtog ........ emphatically NO!

You tell me to drop the "weekly" bit from my mentality ........... I would respectfully ask why is everyone on here so fixated with the "yearly" mentality??? If yiz are in current employment do you get paid weekly or monthly? Very few of you (unless there are a coupla Company DIrectors amongst you) are paid annually. But when it comes to betting you are all quite content to wait until year end to show a profit.??? All Hayzee asked in his original post was "Can anyone advise how to make £100 per week". The answers offered were "join up, do your "apprenticeship" and maybe, just maybe, after 12 months you will show a profit". I offered a different view -- one that I think should be quite possible if you have a SUCCESSFUL SYSTEM OR METHOD OF SELECTION.


ESSEXBOI .......... personally I would not label a system that fails to deliver a single bet in a week as SUCCESFUL. Lemme ask you: how would you describe a system that didn't give a single bet over a year? Successful or unsuccessful?

Some people are beyond help! Er yearly? Weekly? Yearly? Weekly? HUGE difference bud. No bets a year, yes duff, useless, go good. No bets in a week, as i already said, that u seem to have taken no notice of, the SUCCESSFUL systems on here can go a week without a bet. Yes that 40% SR and 100pts LSP, hmm must be unsuccessful with figures like that!

[silax]

icy a lot of people on here are building there betting banks gradually using successfull systems therefore they have no need to draw money untill there stakes allow it. i'm lucky enough to draw money on a regular basis from the systems i follow and its a little bit more then £100 a week. win2win showed me how to become an (well pro-gambler is not the term i use) investor in racing. some weeks i make a loss but overall each month i normally draw more cash then your average 9-5 worker i don't follow all the win2win system and i have a couple of my own. at the end of the day i would keep my membership going even if i didn't folow the systems posted as a way of saying thank you to keith and co for showing me how to make a living sitting on my ass in the sun

[Win2Win]

:splapme :headbange :nutter :ermmm :mady :pg :hamm :cuck

[susanwells]

Ice will you please PM me ... on my own e-mail if you can. Thanks ( and no ribald remarks please.everyone..)
:hearty

[Merlin]

I eat my peas with jelly
I ¨ve done it all my life
It makes my fart so smelly
Just ask my 33rd wife.....


:laugh:laugh:laugh

[icebreaker]

Ice will you please PM me

I'm sorry, Susan, but I cannot do so. Not being a Club member, I do not have access to the PM facility on here.

Regards,
Jack C.

[e55exboi]

:splapme :headbange :nutter :ermmm :mady :pg :hamm :cuck
:laugh

[sparkyminer]

You can contact Susan from here.
http://www.susan-hill.com/contact_susan.asp

[icebreaker]

Thank you for that, Miner.

Maybe it would be advisable to now delete that addy in case the spam-meisters and their bots pick it up.

Thanks again.

[sparkyminer]

It's on Susan's website in the public domain.

[Onlyforfun]

My one comment on this madness about 1 week and stuff. Turn the logic on its head. If you make a profit for 1 week, does it mean you'll make a profit over a year.


A year is just a convenient measure within which there is likely to be enough data to ensure a correct interpretation.

I like the traffic jam analogy MM, my wife doesn't believe that that can cause jams, drives me potty (pun intended).

[icebreaker]

A year is just a convenient measure within which there is likely to be enough data to ensure a correct interpretation.



Well, the media (Racing Post et al) publish data based on 5 or 10 years results ..................... % of winning favs, jockey/trainer stats, speed figures etc.,etc. So, according to your reasoning, interpretative profits should be calculated over a ten-year period.

[sparkyminer]

Well, the media (Racing Post et al) publish data based on 5 or 10 years results ..................... % of winning favs, jockey/trainer stats, speed figures etc.,etc. So, according to your reasoning, interpretative profits should be calculated over a ten-year period.
Keith does on the members page. :)

[Workshy]

You do it your way IB and others will do it theirs :)

[icebreaker]

If you make a profit for 1 week, does it mean you'll make a profit over a year.




Of course, Yes. If you use a SUCCESSFUL system or method of selection it will be profitable over the year (as well as over a week). The very definition of the adjective "successful" implies profitability no matter what period of time you choose.

[sparkyminer]

Of course, Yes. If you use a SUCCESSFUL system or method of selection it will be profitable over the year (as well as over a week). The very definition of the adjective "successful" implies profitability no matter what period of time you choose.
Using that criteria Ice, then every bet would have to win. It just aint gonna happen mate. :)

[Win2Win]

I'm glad all the pro's and semi-pro's on here have discovered how hard it is to explain to those punters that do not understand the basics of maths & stats when betting, how profits are made. It's like an alcoholic, they will never listen until they accept that they are wrong, and want to change.

I never bother chasing after people, I let them tell me how to bet (!!!!!). If they come to me and are willing to learn, then I have infinite time to teach, but I don't even give a second thought to those who think they know it all.

[icebreaker]

those who think they know it all.

Well, on that note, I'll retire gracefully from this thread (cue sound of loud applause and much relief).

Have to say tho' that I never came here to lecture or preach to anybody. I thought it was a debate of ideas, and if there are differing view-points in such a debate then so be it. Neither do I consider myself a "know-it-all". Far from it, as I get older I realise how little I know ........... it's for that reason I trawl betting forums and BBS's in an attempt to broaden my knowledge.

Peace to all
Jack C.

[Onlyforfun]

OK, last year I made a five figure profit, yet I had two losing months, many losing weeks and nearly as many losing days as profitable days. Does this mean I failed? If so I wish I could fail so spectacularly with women!:box

[e55exboi]

How bout that trainee job then Keith. I accept im the wrongest alive, im wrong wrong wrong, u know lots lots more, i need input iiinput, johnny 5..AHEM!

Icecracker, you must be mad to think if a system profits in a week it will profit for the year!! I papertrade a couple of systems that have rocketed to 40 points in a week or even less :yikes: then plummeted to be crap thereafter!
Just do yaself a favour like i did, pay £1.50 or however much it is for one days membership and study the 10 year history! I calculated an AVERAGE year for media fc, done the long way cos im spreadsheet dyslexic, starting with £100 bank betting at 5% of that bank adjusted daily and adding 20% to the SPs accounting for betfair, which incidently is a feat in itself to acheive 20% better than sp half the time but still, and the outcome is by the end of the year you see £12,000! Reachin a high of £16k in early November. Luckily that year it didnt once go into negative equity, quite the opposite to this year, but hopefully March will see a big winning run!!!! Least for my neighbours sake it wants to! :yikes:

[susanwells]

Thanks Sparky.. my webmaster reports a heck of a sudden lot of footfall to my website since your post... Ooo Ooo Ooo

[bennyboy]

I eat my peas with jelly
I ¨ve done it all my life
It makes my fart so smelly
Just ask my 33rd wife.....


:laugh:laugh:laugh

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gifhttp://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gifhttp://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

[hayzee]

Cheers IceB,
They still don't get it do they.
E55ex,what are you like?
A score bet from a bank of 2 grand is only 1%,if it's strong a oner is still only 5%.
Of course bets don't come along every five minutes,unless you're a bookie,and the ton a week is a figure,an average you twanny.
Ms Wells,all those books and experience and your petticoat still gets ruffled so easily,ooooohhhhhh headmaster.

[tophatter]

Cheers IceB,

Of course bets don't come along every five minutes,unless you're a bookie,and the ton a week is a figure,an average you twanny

Ah! the magic word appears. :zap

AVERAGE

Well done hayzee you win the special prize for getting there in the end. Unfortunatley it has been claimed already by every man and his dog on this website who worked it out without doing an impression of Victor Meldrew after a night on the :drnk :)

Next weeks Special word: Realism :wink

[Win2Win]

I can't spell REALISM :doh

[hayzee]

Realism TH,
I don't believe that you can apply thet word to too many people in netland.
I would expect a return of a ton a week AVERAGE from a bank of 4 grand,betting 1%,stronger as need be.
Bullshit,rubbish,cloud cuckoo land,that's my bottom line,make up your own mind.
VM was a student of mine,only unlike yourself not so patronising or modest,there again I suppose you have much more to be modest about.

[tophatter]

Oh come now Hayzee, Was only me having a little joke at your expense. Much like you like to do - I thought you liked that and none of the pally stuff? Your argument was flawed, you debated it, I exposed it and then you actually confirmed it. How could you expect me to let that go without a little light hearted banter?

By the way if I had a bank of 4K and only made a ton a week on average - I would be gutted, you have gone from being unrealistic to decidedly mediocre.

[Win2Win]

It is a democratic meritocratic democracy we run on this site, and all democrats are welcome :doh

[hayzee]

Cheers TH,
where do I send the cheque,cos everyone else thinks it's not possible.

[Win2Win]

Ooo :doh :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter

[tophatter]

OK,

look you asked if you could make £100 per week every week garanteed laying out no more than £700 a week. The answer is NO.

I said if I had a bank of £700 over two years I could turn it into £20K easy - but some weeks I would lose maybe a couple of grand.

Now you have changed it to an AVERAGE of £100 per week from a bank of 4K.

With a bank Of 4K I would be looking to profit at least 10 grand. or an Avegage of £200 per week, and i would be disappointed with that return.

No cheque required, just read it and understand where I am coming from!!!!

[e55exboi]

Ooo :doh :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter :nutter
:laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh :laugh

Hayzee, since when did u mention average? U asked can you win £100 a week if splashing out £700? We said no, as an average over the year yes, now your back tracking.
Not once has either of u said ul get a days membership and check the 10 yr results for yourself. Basically i think your saying, "can you lot tell me how to win loadsa money without me having to become a member?" Sure i can tell ya. Follow my trial system at 50% of your bank per bet Ooo

[susanwells]

TH with a bank of 4k .. placing the bets on what system ? One or several, are you dividing this 4k or is it one bank ?
Need to know here :hearty

[Workshy]

How far back in this thread did I say you lot shouldnt be wasting your time on chayzee? :doh

[Workshy]

TH with a bank of 4k .. placing the bets on what system ? One or several, are you dividing this 4k or is it one bank ?
Need to know here :hearty

The Pro Losers I suspect.

[bigcumba]

Speaking of averages, if it takes on average say 2 minutes for everyone to post an average message on here, this thread has wasted nearly 6 hours of time that could have been better spent elsewhere, and that doesn't include the aerage time it takes to read each post.... :rolleyes:

[susanwells]

Maybe it would be advisable to now delete that addy in case the spam-meisters and their bots pick it up.

Yes, it`s fine, it is in the public domain but what never ceases to amaze me is how little spam I get.. I mean, no more than the usual Viagra/African scam stuff which everyone gets and which anti-spammer dumps in Trash anyway.
I get lots of e-mails via the site, mainly form desperate students wanting me to [pass their exams for them.. I`m thinking of putting them all onto Keith from now on, give him something to do. :yikes:

[e55exboi]

We all love a good argument :D

[bigcumba]

We all love a good argument :D

Oh no we don't.... :D

[Workshy]

Oh no we don't.... :D


Shut it both you slaaaaags! :D

[tophatter]

The pro-losers yes, due to the turnover. If I started any of the win systems I do with a bank of £4000 I would also have easily got to that level too.

I aint just talking Win2win systems here, I am talking any succesful system can make good profit ater a sustained period of time, but will not be able to profit weekly unless there was an enormous amount of qualifiers and huge strike rate.

I don't really care about if Hayzee believes me or not and have not done since about two posts into the thread. However it has been a useful exercise in explaining how strike rate, Betting banks and staking work. If Hayzee wants to take it as patronising and wotnot, he is more of a sensitive little soul than I thought he was. Just as well I did not call him stupid isnt it? much as in the same blunt talking style he likes to use when talking about other forum members.

[Win2Win]

Shut it both you slaaaaags
Your the one with the thread up your ass :laugh

[susanwells]

Maybe you should close this thread altogether Keith :hearty people are getting what my granny would have called airy-ated

[Workshy]

Your the one with the thread up your ass :laugh

You use the word 'your' very loosely :laugh

[Win2Win]

We're all adults here Susan, just that some are a bit :dunce :mady :Helooo :lickme :yahoo1 :helper :JK

[e55exboi]

Yes were all just so damn :Helooo we just cant help a bit o the old :waver :Helooo

[Onlyforfun]

Hayzee, you obviously live in cloud Betfair Forum/Thommos tips land. Little known to you there are a large percentage of BF's reported "succesful punters" on here, i.e., profit 15k+ in a year.

People like you make me laugh, theres TH, W2W and many more trying to help you (AND THEY ARE SUCCESFUL GAMBLERS!) and you still give it the big I am. You get the Holy Grail presented to you on a plate and you say, nah, could make a better one myself. As Worky says, waste of space.

[hayzee]

OFF,
if Thommo or any of the suede shoe mob came near me I'd run a mile.
I've obviously touched a nerve here.
So many successful punters,so much money,you know that smell when the farrier is at work.............
Please close the thread W2W,I've only got one blob and the thread's got three ******* stars now.

[Workshy]

OFF,
if Thommo or any of the suede shoe mob came near me I'd run a mile.
I've obviously touched a nerve here.
So many successful punters,so much money,you know that smell when the farrier is at work.............
Please close the thread W2W,I've only got one blob and the thread's got three ******* stars now.

I'd think you'd like to think you have. Red blob now chayzee :yikes:

[tophatter]

No nerve touched as far as I am concerned on the gambling front Hayzee and why would there be? - it is no crime for someone not to understand gambling, strike rates, staking etc, but if I think someone is talking balls I would be a hypocrite not to point it out.
The fact you post in a spikey and some may say rude manner, is also of no concern to me. What I fail to understand though is how you can be so obnoxious at times and then when others give a bit back you cry foul. Most of the negative comments directed towards you, will not be because of your original question but your arrogant, rude, boorish, one trick pony style way of sniping and griping with anyone or anything.

It don't bother me, post how you like as long as you don't swear or cross the line, but equally don't start whinging if people respond in kind.

[bigcumba]

I've obviously touched a nerve here.

I wonder why.... :rolleyes:


Thanks for the tip about starting with a bank,hadn't sussed that one,who do suggest barclays natwest or the ******* co-op.


If you can't deal with my posts workshy,don't read em or get the boss to cut the access,that is if he can do it without your nose stuck up his ****.


A special thank you to MS Wells,an inspiration in fact,if you've earned a living from writing for all these years,it's a great example of what people are prepared to pay for.


I do unfortunately react to people like workshy,he seems so far up himself.


VM was a student of mine,only unlike yourself not so patronising or modest,there again I suppose you have much more to be modest about.


So many successful punters,so much money,you know that smell when the farrier is at work.............

[silax]

ok hayzee/icebreaker
how much have we got to pay you 2 to give us the golden egg. you are the golden goose in case you hadn't already worked it out.
i take it you have a website/tipping service and the only people i know who will make the kind of promises you 2 do are the ones who charge for it. so how much.

[hayzee]

No good asking me Silax(love your picture,how appropriate),
all I asked was about making a ton and what I was prepared to lay out to get it.
One minute it's a load of *******s,pie in the sky,even thinking like that,next minute,everyone and his dog is making so much more than that,exept me.
If only TH had said he was that smart to begin with I could have sent him a cheque and saved all this trouble.

[Fadetoblack]

I think we're begining to see some repetition here.

[bigcumba]

If only TH had said he was that smart to begin with I could have sent him a cheque and saved all this trouble.

If only you would change your attitude to the good people who use this forum..... but I reckon there's more chance of me winning the Gold Cup carrying Best Mate on my back.... :rolleyes:

[bennyboy]

have a day off will you hayzee.http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/NEW5.gif

[e55exboi]

Come on who was it left the rep! Albeit good, i always talk sense ya silly plank! If i aint its my sense of humour which sadly not many people understand! :geek :butthead:

[icebreaker]

ok hayzee/icebreaker
how much have we got to pay you 2 to give us the golden egg. you are the golden goose in case you hadn't already worked it out.
i take it you have a website/tipping service and the only people i know who will make the kind of promises you 2 do are the ones who charge for it. so how much.

I know, I know, ........... I know I promised not to post again on this thread, but, the above demands rebuttal!

Silax, what in God's name are you on about? Hayzee was asking for advice ...... not offering to SELL tips or making any kind of promises. Now, can I debunk the main insinuation in your above post in the clearest manner possible? I DO NOT HAVE OR NEVER HAVE HAD A WEBSITE OR TIPPING SERVICE!!! I've never even subscribed to a tipping service -- you'll notice that I'm not subscribed to this one (W2W) either.

It's a bad day when someone contributes to a debate and as a result is accused of partaking only from a promotional or self-enhancement motive. Where in any of my posts did I ever even mention an alternative website or tipstering service? Is one mentioned in my User CP??? Please show me -- otherwise I would be grateful if you would withdraw your destructive remarks re same.

Ta.

[e55exboi]

Hes being pedantic i think the word could be :doh
He saying you two are taking advice from the worlds only profiters on betty virtually yet ya still not a member.
, so u must have ya own tips to be winning on

[Workshy]

I know, I know, ........... I know I promised not to post again on this thread, but, the above demands rebuttal!

Silax, what in God's name are you on about? Hayzee was asking for advice ...... not offering to SELL tips or making any kind of promises. Now, can I debunk the main insinuation in your above post in the clearest manner possible? I DO NOT HAVE OR NEVER HAVE HAD A WEBSITE OR TIPPING SERVICE!!! I've never even subscribed to a tipping service -- you'll notice that I'm not subscribed to this one (W2W) either.

It's a bad day when someone contributes to a debate and as a result is accused of partaking only from a promotional or self-enhancement motive. Where in any of my posts did I ever even mention an alternative website or tipstering service? Is one mentioned in my User CP??? Please show me -- otherwise I would be grateful if you would withdraw your destructive remarks re same.

Ta.

I think Silax was dealing alot of the hayzee reply to you too IB.

[Onlyforfun]

Everyones entitled to their opinion and IceBreaker has never been rude or obnoxious that I can remember. I think he's very wrong on this issue, but there endeth my problem.

[bennyboy]

Hes being pedantic i think the word could be :doh
He saying you two are taking advice from the worlds only profiters on betty virtually yet ya still not a member.
, so u must have ya own tips to be winning on

i think sardonic is the word essex... http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

[bigcumba]

Sardonic - isn't that an Italian island.? :D

[tophatter]

Everyone seems to be missing the point.

Yes Hayzee asked a question and we debated it no worries.

However he peppered every reply he had with sarcasim ang guff some of it directed at people who had only tried to join in the debate.

He then conclusively proved his case wrong by actually saying he was talking about averages - exactly the case the majority of us were arguing for!!!. He knows that and has now resorted to calling me a smart ass etc. I aint no smart ass - even a monkey could see he has shifted his position an incredible amount from the original point he started at.

Everything else is just diversion tatics and distraction. The question was answered, and then confirmed by himself when he had thought about it. The rest of his contribution has been devoid of anything constructive.

Icebreaker has debated this elequontly and with manners - The point Silax raised is a red herring - a non starter. The fact is hayzee has been a bit of a plonker, there is no way he has got a tipping service or anything, the only thing he has got is a fundamental lack of understanding when it comes to system betting and making money gambling. He knows that now and will just try and call everyone smart ass's, etc, as the debate, in his mind, is over.

[bennyboy]

Sardonic - isn't that an Italian island.? :D

http://www.win2winracing.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_lol.gif

[Win2Win]

Someone missed the 'sarcasim' queue somewhere? :doh

[bigcumba]

Someone missed the 'sarcasim' queue somewhere? :doh

Sarcasim Keith? was that a mistake or is it the new forum game we'll be playing soon with Hayzee as the sim manager!? :D

[Workshy]

Sarcasim Keith? was that a mistake or is it the new forum game we'll be playing soon with Hayzee as the sim manager!? :D

He couldnt manage a smile! :D

[Win2Win]

Sorry, I meant to spell it sarcumism...:doh

[hayzee]

I feel I must apologise,
when I mentioned the 5/4,I didn't realise it had been re-vamped and was well in profit(thanks you know who for bringing this to my notice!!).
E55ex,apart from the crim connotation,don't ask if you haven't been there,when you mention A.N.Other,it's to save using someone elses name,or in this case,another website,ohhhhhhh you are subtle.

[Fadetoblack]

Saucer of milk please....

[Workshy]

hayzee: www.buysomemannersandfriends.com < check it out you sad old sod.

[bigcumba]

That link doesn't work mate, I had my credit card all ready to buy him a present...

[sparkyminer]

Is this bloody thing still going?

[Win2Win]

:splapme :splapme :splapme :splapme :splapme :splapme :splapme :splapme :splapme :splapme

[plater]

Is this bloody thing still going?
:laugh


I made £100 yesterday and I will make £100 today, and if the Ink lasts in my printer I'll make £100 Wednesday :doh

[e55exboi]

So what..? :peek

[biyax]

nice read :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

[Win2Win]

Blimey you dug this one up :laugh

[biyax]

Blimey you dug this one up :laugh
iiiiiiiiii:biggrin:
:laughitupsmilie::laughitupsmilie::laughitupsmilie::laughitupsmilie: