Does anyone know ........

[icebreaker]

Good morning,

Does anyone know if there is an agreed industry-wide formula for settling E/W bets on golf? For example, in the 2005 Open which Tiger W. won and C Mongomerie was runner-up ,there were two players who shared third place and six players shared fourth. Thats ten players in the top four finishes. E/W terms are 1/4 odds place for first five but there are six players who shared fourth place. WHat is the calculation used to determine the odds payable on an E/W place bet on any one of these six players?

Thanks in advance.

[vegyjones]

Should be on the terms and conditions of whichever bookie you use Ice!

[icebreaker]

No vegy ............. because the bookies cannot foretell how many players will finish in the top five in any given tournament.

BUt what I really am interested tho' is whether there is an industry-wide agreement on the payout. Like, is there an agreed formula amongst all the bookies or does each individual company make it's own rules.

[icebreaker]

because the bookies cannot foretell how many players will finish in the top five in any given tournament.


What I mean is that there would be a lower deduction if there are seven finishers in the top five than if, as was the case at St Andrews, when there were ten. I don't know if I'm making much sense here. :(

[vegyjones]

Outright Betting non-runner no bet. All outright bets are settled on the player winning the trophy. Where a dead heat occurs for the place part of a bet the returns will be calculated taking into account the number of places on offer at the time of the bet and the number of selections that dead heat.

Taken from Totalbet's rules on Golf Betting!

[mathare]

I know what you mean Ice, unfortunately I don't know the answer though. It's an awkward one where each place (other than 1st unless the result goes on 72 holes and doesn't include a play-off) can actually be held by multiple runners.

So if 6 players share 4th place they are all equal. It's not like a fastest goal market, for example, where seconds can be used to split events occurring in the same minute.

Perhaps worth a call/e-mail to a bookie or two to see how they would settle it? Try the customer services department of maybe Blue Sq and Bet365 or any other two bookies really. Be interesting to see how Paddy Power do it too as they are viewed as quite customer friendly in terms of settlements

[icebreaker]

Taken from Totalbet's rules on Golf Betting!

Thank you, vegy ............. I've studied that, but, they don't actually state HOW they calculate the place returns for a dead-heat. UNless they mean that they divide the 1/4 place odds by the number of dead-heating players. That would mean in the case of the 2005 Open if you paced a £1 e/w on R Goosen at 16/1 you would get back only £1.40 for an outlay of £2. I.E., 1/4 odds divided by 10 (there being ten players dead-heating in the top four finishes. Doesn't seem to be worthwhile doing an e/w bet on golf.

[vegyjones]

Thank you, vegy ............. I've studied that, but, they don't actually state HOW they calculate the place returns for a dead-heat. UNless they mean that they divide the 1/4 place odds by the number of dead-heating players. That would mean in the case of the 2005 Open if you paced a £1 e/w on R Goosen at 16/1 you would get back only £1.40 for an outlay of £2. I.E., 1/4 odds divided by 10 (there being ten players dead-heating in the top four finishes. Doesn't seem to be worthwhile doing an e/w bet on golf.
That sounds about right Ice!

EW bet on any of the other 3 players below Woods would have been profitable though! :)

[Onlyforfun]

I would have thought that Monty / Cuples would have paid out at full place price as they did not dd-ht for a place, they were placed outright.

[vegyjones]

I would have thought that Monty / Cuples would have paid out at full place price as they did not dd-ht for a place, they were placed outright.
and Olazabel OFF! :)

[sportingprofit]

Good morning,

Does anyone know if there is an agreed industry-wide formula for settling E/W bets on golf? For example, in the 2005 Open which Tiger W. won and C Mongomerie was runner-up ,there were two players who shared third place and six players shared fourth. Thats ten players in the top four finishes. E/W terms are 1/4 odds place for first five but there are six players who shared fourth place. WHat is the calculation used to determine the odds payable on an E/W place bet on any one of these six players?

Thanks in advance.

With two finishing 3rd, the next 6 would be classed as finishing 5th, so the 4 places are taken up.

About paying out, I believe this is how they do it.

If there is a tie e.g 4 finishing in 4th.

They would divide the odds by the e/w terms (1/4) times the stake (£2) and then divide by the number finishing 4th.

e.g 100/1 / 1/4 = 25/1 * £2 = £50 / 4 = £12.50

Hope that help, or made any sense. :)

[icebreaker]

I would have thought that Monty / Cuples would have paid out at full place price as they did not dd-ht for a place, they were placed outright.

I doubt that, OFF. That's the same as saying that in-a-more-than-16 runner horserace handicap if two horses dead-heated for 2nd place they would have a higher e/w payout than the fourth horse home.

[sportingprofit]

OFF is right, they would of been paid full place price. As they would in a 16 runner handicap.

[icebreaker]

With two finishing 3rd, the next 6 would be classed as finishing 5th, so the 4 places are taken up.


I'm sorry about this, SportingP, but I just can't seem to get this. There are five places entitled to payout under the terms of the bet. But ten players qualify for finishing in the first five.

Have to say I would entirely disagree with the mathematical equation you gave as an example. My take on that would be: -------
100/1 divided by 1/4 = 25/1.
25/1 divided by 10 (10 finishers) = 2.5/ 1
£2.50 returned to a stake of £2 backing a 100/1 shot e/w .
Damn bad value if you ask me.

[icebreaker]

OFF is right, they would of been paid full place price. As they would in a 16 runner handicap.
Then , by that reasoning the fourth horse home also paying full e/w odds would mean that the six golfers who deadheated for fourth place should also return full e/w odds. I don't think it will happen.

[vegyjones]

1-4 are payed out on their full price
or a 1/4 of it for 2nd 3rd and 4th.

The other 6 pay out 1 6th of a 1/4 of their odds

[icebreaker]

BTW., I don't want to appear to be arguing here ......... I genuinely don't know what the answer is to this query. Asking it in the first place meant that I genuinely would like to know. Coz I don't!

[icebreaker]

Thank you for that, vegy. You're fairly certain of that, are ya?

[Onlyforfun]

BTW., I don't want to appear to be arguing here ......... I genuinely don't know what the answer is to this query. Asking it in the first place meant that I genuinely would like to know. Coz I don't!

I think that goes for all of us! :)

[Merlin]

These are LADBROKES Rules.....

For Each-Way bets, dead heat rules apply. For example, if Each-Way terms quoted for a tournament are for the first four places, three players tying for third place will be deemed to have dead heated for third, fourth and fifth place with 1/3 stake lost and 2/3 stake settled at full place odds for Each-Way bets on those players.

I think its pretty safe to say that the major bookies would apply the same rule...

[Stewards enquiry]

Have a look at page 12 Racing Post Extra Daily Mirror today.

[Fadetoblack]

I had 10 each way on Vigay Singh at 16-1 and my return was 50 bucks, no dead heat rules. That was with Paddy Power.

[icebreaker]

You have been very fortunate! I have finally discovered that the accepted practice is where there are 6 players sharing fifth place then only 1/6 of your place stake is "on". This is corroborated by Steward's Enquiry Daily Mirror article today. Hence your return should have been only 16.64 for an outlay of 20.00. Ooo

[Fadetoblack]

Must have been a rare bookies mistake so....they probably saw my stake and the price, saw he came fifth and just went from there....

no complaints here