Win or EW?

[TheOldhamWhisper]

I have recently seen some discussion on whether you should back Win or EW. If you are a member of Betfair or anywhere else who take 'place only' bets then the next bit is probably irrelevant.

It is best explained with a couple of examples:

HorseWin wins @ 2/1 you have £20 to Win and get £60 returns.

HorseEW wins @ 2/1 in a 'ew pays a fifth' race you have £10ew and get £44 returns.

HorseWin 2nd @ 4/1 - £20 win - £0
HorseEW 2nd @ 4/1 in a 'ew pays a quarter' race - £10ew - £20

My opinion is only back EW if your horse is 4/1 in a quarter odds for the place race or 5/1 if your horse is running in a fifth odds for the place race.

If you don't know whether the place is going to pay a quarter odds or a fifth odds then you should not be backing horses yet - you should be learning the game!

[John]

Good postings about the EW bets.

I am still unsure as to how you calculate the estimated returns if the horse finishes placed though... could someone please help me? Thanks :)

Ooh also I've noticed that on some sites it says EW 1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/5 and 1/6... :confused: :confused: :confused:

[frontrunner]

To calculate place odds, first convert win odds, to odds to one by dividing the left hand figure by the righthand figure.
Thus 9/2 becomes 4.5. for 1/4 odds multiply the figure round by 0.25.

Thus, (4.5 x 0.25)/1 = 1.25/1. For 1/5 odds multiply by 0.20. Thus (4.5 x 0.20)/1 = 0.90/1.

Good Luck
:laugh


Frontrunner
:spinning

[John]

Quite complicated although I'm not Einstein when it comes to Mathematics. Thanks for explaining in laymans terms :)

[MarcusMel]

If the horse is placed divide the profit you would have won if it came in first by 5. The result is close enough if it is actually paid by dividing by 4 you have a bit of a bonus!

If you want a simple way of dividing by 5, double the amount and divide by 10.

Examples (and more explanation (if you can stay awake through it))
Odds of 7-1 £1 bet E/W Total cost of bet(s) £2. AN EACHWAY BET IS TWO BETS, £1 on the horse to win the race and £1 on the horse to get a place. If the horse is NOT first then the bet for the horse to win is LOST, but the bet for the horse to place is Won if comes in 2nd or 3rd or 1st. You win both bets if the horse comes in 1st BUT the place bet is still worked out as stated here. So to work out the return for a place bet take the £7.00 you would have won on odds of 7-1 and divided it by 5. This is normally written as 7/5.

Using the simple? calculation described
just Double the 7 which becomes 14 and divide this by 10 to get £1.40 profit on a £1 stake. Your £1 stake is returned along with £1.40 profit (yawning yet?) so you get back in total £2.40. So what you see in your hand is £0.40 profit overall. Which for a 7-1 odds horse seems a bit small, but it is much better than losing it all!

Some other examples
7/5 returns £1.40 plus £1.00 stake giving £2.40 or 40p profit
3/5 returns £0.60 plus £1.00 stake giving £0.60 or 1.40 loss
5/5= returns £1.00 plus £1.00 stake giving £2.00 or broke even.
10/5=?? You work it out ??

[John]

Thanks very much to Marcus, great analysis of how E/W bets work, I didn't realise it was two separate bets which in essence would double your stake that you put in! I managed to make it to the end of your post without yawning, and, just for reference...


7/5 returns £1.40 plus £1.00 stake giving £2.40 or 40p profit
3/5 returns £0.60 plus £1.00 stake giving £0.60 or 1.40 loss
5/5= returns £1.00 plus £1.00 stake giving £2.00 or broke even.
10/5=?? You work it out ??

10/5 returns £2.00 plus £1.00 stake giving I don't know or I don't know. :confused: That's hard to work out!

But I understand the rest, thanks again.

[presto]

one thing that i have looked at was:

back the horse EW at the bookies.
lay off the win part on one of the exchanges.
you now have better place odd's

this method dosn't work all the times, and it isn't really worth the effort unless the conditions are correct,
but on big event's the odd's for the FAV are often the same on the exchanges and the bookies, but sometimes the bookies may have a special promotion on (eg extra place). you will often loose a bit on the win bet while laying it, but this should be recouped in the better place odds, so if you think a horse will place but not win this method may be worth a try.

(i havn't tried it out, but the theory is sound, too much fuss for me)

[John]

Good point presto but also remember that non-runners do not affect the number of paying places on the exchanges e.g. Betfair. :spinning

[presto]

didn't think of that sj :dunce

thaugh i would add:

handicaps -16 or more runners 1/4 0dds 4 places
handicaps - 12 - 15 runners 1/4 odds 3 places
other races - 8 or more runners 1/5 odds 3 places
races - 5,6,7 runners 1/4 odds 2 places
less than 5 runners - win only

these are from the bookies (bet 365), i think that they are all the same.

[GLENCROFT]

What I never realised until reading it on this site is that you dont have to split your stake 50/50 between win and place.

eg £ 1 e/w can be £1.20p win and 80p place.