I'm a complete novice but want to learn.

[DijPurdy]

Everyone’s sooooo friendly. :)

Ok I guess I should be embarrassed to ask this but I'm not :doh , I completely admit to being new to the world of horses (couldn’t find a steering wheel on a single horse out there :spinning ), but can someone explain to me in layman’s terms about lay betting, I looked at betfair clicked on a few things in the play for fun bit, but I don’t understand what might be good as a lay bet or otherwise. Is there a nice newbie part of the forum that explains these things that someone could point me in the direction of, sorry for being thick and asking but I’m sure these questions have to be asked before you start to learn? Thanks to anyone that wants to advice a complete novice.

[wb]

Welcome to the forum :)
No such thing as a silly question, we all have to learn somewhere, and at least you are making an effort to learn, before throwing money away.
First things first, before you look at betfair, do you understand 'normal' odds when it comes to racing such as 11/2, 5/1, 9/4 etc. etc. ?

[wb]

Ah sorry, I see that you asked about laying..... Doh!

[wb]

First things first, the betfair odds:


How do you work out Decimal odds. The most simple way I can explain this is by telling you to take away one!

For example - If you see a horse on betfair, and it’s price is 13, you simply take away one. 13-1 = 12. Therefore the price in traditional odds is 12/1
A few more examples:

A horse that is displayed on betfair at 15.
15-1 = 14. Therefore the price in traditional odds is 14/1

A horse that is displayed on betfair at 3.5:
3.5-1 = 2.5. Therefore the price in traditional odds is 2.5/1 (5/2)

A horse that is displayed on betfair at 5.5.
5.5-1 = 4.5. Therefore the price in traditional odds is 4.5/1 (9/2)


Laying on betfair works like this:

If you really believe a horse will lose, you can decide to 'lay' it.

Let's say you want to lay a horse on betfair that is available at 6.0, for example. ( best lay odds are displayed in the pink box) - That works out at 5/1 in traditional odds (always take away one to work out the odds.)

So, if you believe the horse will lose, and you want to win say ten quid on that belief, you simply enter £10 into the 'backers stake' box and go ahead with the bet.

If the horse loses, you keep the ten quid, but if it wins, you must pay out £50 because you more or less became a bookie and offered 5/1 (6.0 in betfair odds)

Just remember... It is not as easy as it sounds to just pick losers. If you do a lay at say 10, (9/1)
and the horse wins, you will need to have 9 more losers to break even. Any more winners and you are on a very slippery slope. Be careful and use small stakes when starting. Better still, paper trade for a while.

[DijPurdy]

Thanks for the reply, oh yes I try to gather as much info before using any hard earned money.
I certainly do, I have been reading a bit on odds and such, but there doesnt seem to be enough decent info out there about what is a good lay bet, or I just havent been able to find it, any help wbailey would be greatly appreicated.

[DijPurdy]

Thanks for that, so the higher the odds if the horse comes in a winner the more your going to loose, so best pick a horse that has low odds or fav that you think will loose, is that right WB?

[wb]

Thanks for that, so the higher the odds if the horse comes in a winner the more your going to loose, so best pick a horse that has low odds or fav that you think will loose, is that right WB?

Pretty much. Although, it is not as simple as it sounds.

I have learned from experience and the advice of other members NOT to lay over 10.5. At this stage, the prices start to get ridiculous, and go out the window.

[DijPurdy]

Great advice, thanks for that, I had a quick scan thru the forums but could not see a newbie section, might be good to have one or just a general area of information like you have just given, but anyway thanks for the help, no doubt I will have many more questions very soon.

[wb]

Are you interested in football at all?

If you are well up on football matters, It may be worth practising laying football teams using small stakes, as you will find some very short odds there sometimes - Simply to get an idea of how laying works.
Horseracing takes a good while to get the hang of. If you are eager though, you could start by doing the Golden Lay every day on the free page.

[DijPurdy]

I am more up on football true, but want to get into the gg's more and try to understand more the workings of how to know whats a good bet and more important whats a bad bet, and generally study horse form and jockey form. I wont be placing any large bets but want to dabble enough and understand what I'm doing.

[wb]

No bother. Keep the questions coming, there is usually someone about that can answer them.
A small bit of advice for when starting out though... Ignore handicap races. The whole weights thing is too much to get your head around for your first few bets. Concentrate on the top 3 or four in the bettting of Non Handicaps. Check out the past form, what ground it has won on etc. Have a look at the jockey and trainer records. Start eliminating horses that you think wont win. Everybody has their own way of selecting horses, and it will take time for you to get used to it, and get your own style. Also, learn to find your way around the Racing Post website. It has a mine of stats, figures, form etc. You can also watch past races. Start by clicking on a horse or jockey name and play around with it, looking up the different stats.

Glos posted a very handy tool explaining how to read the form:

Just move your mouse around it, and read the text in the black box at the bottom.

http://www.pi.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/test/RPcard.html

[Win2Win]

It would only be a silly question if Vegy asked it :)

[DijPurdy]

Thanks Wayne, very helpful stuff, I will let you know when I actually put some money down and what the results are, but until then I'm gonna do some practise runs and see how well it goes.

Keith ummm errrr gee did Vegy upset you today!

[MarcusMel]

Just read some of Vegy's posts. Then you will understand :rolleyes:

[vegyjones]

I can link you to all 14600 if you like! :D

[ray7]

Thats 14,654 Vegy but who`s counting :D

[vegyjones]

There really should be a thread somewhere of my favourtite posts... :D

You know, like at the end of a TV series where they show all the best bits, something like that! :D

Cause lets face it, all the best bits on this forum have involved me! :D

[DijPurdy]

I'm starting to think you are the forum Vegy. Your name is nearly in every thread :)

[vegyjones]

Hmm, Is that a good or a bad thing ? :D

[roma]

I don’t understand what might be good as a lay bet or otherwise.

I'm quite new to horses too. I wouldn't try to pick my own bets at all, but for fun, you could join in the Daily Joint Effort which is a thread in the Daily Horse Racing Selections section, it's a monthly competition so you might want to wait until 1st May to start cause you will be 25 pts down if you start now :mover

Also, for a lay bet, have you seen the Golden Lay on the Win2Win site, one lay tip usually per day up there from about 12.00, you could start by laying that each day maybe?

The thing with lay bets is if they go and win you can lose a lot, so as Wayne says you have to have a cutoff and I don't lay at any price over 10, also it's good if you're not rich to start with laying a small amount. The minimum bet on Betfair is £2 but you can get round that if you want to lay less, there's a thread on here somewhere that will probably explain it better than me :)

[DijPurdy]

ok started to read your posts Vegy, first 10 the going was good to firm (did you see what I did just then, dropped in a racing term) after 16 the going got a bit heavy by 28 I had to start on the hallucinogenic drugs to keep me going and by 42 well it really started to go down hill after that!

Personally I think it’s great to have so many friends that like you so much they talk about you all the time.

[DijPurdy]

Thanks roma, thats good info, how long have you been on win2win and dare I ask how well your doing so far?

[roma]

I was following the free bets for two or three months and then I joined because it was frustrating knowing there were more I could not see!! I joined about a month ago and I am following two of the members' lay method tips plus the Golden Lay, and the A+, A, B and two members' systems backing tips. The lay methods are doing great, two of my banks are up by about 15 times my stake (which is only £2 so that's about £30 up for each of the 2 banks) and the other by about 5 times my stake. The backing banks have not gone up so much, I think one or two are even a couple of quid down right now, but overall they're up and there are bound to be ups and downs, you just adjust the stake and wait for things to pick up :)

Here is how to bet for less than £2 on Betfair:
http://www.probabilitytheory.info/topics/minimum_stake.htm

(I hope it's OK to post that link mods, it's by the Bet Angel people)

[DijPurdy]

Sounds great, I have only been here for one day but have been reading a lot of the forum threads. I have been thinking of doing just the same as you did follow the free bets and see how things go, but I think as long as your sensible about how much money to gamble and keep good records of what you have done, I know that there will be ups and downs just be careful and place bets well within your banks limit it should be fun. Everyone here wants to help and give advice it's nice to see. ;)

[vegyjones]

ok started to read your posts Vegy... and by 42 well it really started to go down hill after that.:yikes:
IEven I don't read that many of my posts! Ooo

[Win2Win]

:yikes:
IEven I don't read that many of my posts! Ooo
Your not the only one then :rolleyes: