extra income or full-time?

[byepeeps]

Hi all,

I just wanted to know how many of you are actually getting a full-time income from this or whether it is just a little extra income?

Obviously I'd love to be earning a full-time income, rather than having to work at an 8.30 - 5.30 rigid hours job. Is it possible to do? Actually I'd love to quit work, get enough money to get by on with gambling and use any extra income to set up a business (not gambling related). How possible is that? Or is it dream land?

Any help/guidance really appreciated.

Alex

[sparkyminer]

Yes it's possible but I suspect the hours are longer than 8.30 - 5.30.:)
Welcome to the forum btw.:)

[mathare]

I just wanted to know how many of you are actually getting a full-time income from this or whether it is just a little extra income?By "this" do you mean casino gaming or gambling in general?

I'd say it is far more difficult to become a full-time casino pro than a full-time poker pro or gambling pro. And we have a number of the latter on this site.

It's certainly possible to earn a proper income (tax free!) through gambling and so give up work but in order to do so you generally need to be doing a lot of 'work' still. This includes working to get the best prices on each and every selection (where it could make a difference of a few hundred quid to your bottom line - per bet) as well as looking for ways to keep one step ahead of the general punting public (systems research, race reading, form reading etc.)

If you want to build a bank that you can use to start a business then that's also possible. After all, once you've made the money it's up to you what you do with it. You can spend it all on drugs and whores if you like, it's your money. But you need the right mindset to make the money in the first place. You need to be disciplined, know your own strengths and weaknesses, have courage to stick with things even if they initially turn sour and trust in the stats that have proven something works, and also to realise that building banks is a steady process. You won't win a fortune overnight, it's not a get rich scheme. But a small bank will build into a medium bank over time and in turn that can build into a big bank and as your stakes will be bigger at this point your big bank can become a very big bank or provide a decent income. But you need patience to start with and let that small bank grow.

Hope some of that helps. Feel free to ask any more questions you may have :)

[Win2Win]

You can spend it all on drugs and whores

Great...was looking for something new to spend it on :D

[Onlyforfun]

The most sensible thing Mathare has ever said :D :laugh :D

[byepeeps]

Thanks. Yeah I meant gambling in general. All I need really is around £10 - 12,000 average income that I can actually use to pay bills (possibly even approx £9k). But I guess that's not really possible until I've built up a big bank, is that correct? I'm not talking huge amounts, just enough to get by and then be able to set up a business.

I enjoy the work involved in finding selections. I haven't really delved into the casino world yet - only with a slightly dodgey roulette system, which actually made me a couple of hundred pounds but very high risk.

What can I do outside of my work hours to build the bank up to be able to leave work and how long roughly would it take (this may be a 'how long is a piece of string question so forgive me if it is).

Objective 1a: Earn about £9k a year (to actually withdraw, not for increasing betting bank) so that I can LEAVE WORK!

Objective 1b: (this is an alternative to objective 1) earn enough money from gambling to set up a business because at the moment I wouldn't be able to sustain all my fixed costs (mortgage etc.) and be out of work.

Objective 2: Set up business

Appreciate any sensible suggestions :)

[Win2Win]

All I need really is around £10 - 12,000 average income

I think even Kered could manage the £10.........maybe not :laugh

£9000 a year.....I'd be looking at total betting banks of at least £40,000

[byepeeps]

So it's not really that realistic to give up work and earn a full time income (even as small as £9k a year)?

[Win2Win]

Depends on the starting bank. If you start with £40,000...yes.....otherwise....no.

[byepeeps]

That's dashed my hoped then!

[Street cry]

depends how you work it , you need to utilise compound growth betting banks alongside your activity . so you have banks which allow an immediate income and you also need banks that will build up long term with profits reinvested , the problem occurs when you can't do this and u end up preventing growth as you are constantly taking money away from the bank u wanna be turning over about 2 grand a day to be getting what u require SC

[byepeeps]

Do you have a £40k bank then Keith? Isn't it nigh on impossible to build a bank that large? Doesn't it take a lifetime to do that, especially for those at work for most of the day?

[presto]

the problem is - you are not quitting work, making a living from betting is dam hard work, depending on commitment - that 9-5 can look like part time. you also work 7 days a week, no sick pay, no annual paid leave, no work pensions scheme, no regular wage - infact you can lose money (and lots of it).

a lot of '::swear::swear::swear::swear::swear tipsters' give you the impression of 'guaranteed £2000 a month', 'easy money', etc............. in the real world - just like everything else, it's hard work and the harder you work the better you may get.

[Win2Win]

Do you have a £40k bank then Keith? Isn't it nigh on impossible to build a bank that large? Doesn't it take a lifetime to do that, especially for those at work for most of the day?
More.....but the majority os tied up in betting banks, helps with risk management.

I started with £200 in 1998, and still start banks with £200...although I have a few hundred now :yikes:

I never took any money out for 3 years. I work around 10 hours a day, every day, including good Friday & Xmas day (although only 5 hours on those days).....I'm off on holiday in 2/3 weeks.....I do the updates before I go, and then when I land. I do two updates a day every day of my holiday.......you never get a break....if you're ill....you have to work no one does it for you......etc...etc...But I never do anything I do not enjoy :lickme

[marky72]

i dont know allot about this sort of thing but i,d suggest putting some money in for your banks say £200 a system run them for say 3yrs but keep working without touching your banks then have a look at things.

[byepeeps]

Ok Presto I understand that it isn't 'quitting work' but it is in my mind even if I am spending 10 hours on the computer at home. I'm ok with that. What I'm not ok with is being someone else's employee :)

I am prepared to put in the work but I want to know how I get to that stage where I can leave my day time job. What's the best way to go about it?

What if I change my objective (above) to using gambling to get a sum of money together to start a business. I obviously won't need to touch the bank while I'm working so I'll be compounding the betting bank.

[presto]

if you want to get to the stage where you want to leave your day job then IMO you will need:

1) savings - (backup) enough to pay all bills for atleast a year, not to be gambled with.
2) £20k+ bank minimum to be split into many different betting portfolios
3) in depth knowledge of general betting, specialist knowledge in different forms of betting. know how to trade / use software.
4) experience, you need to know what rough times and good times are like, and how you react to them. also disiplin and balls.
........................................

getting to that stage dosn't happen overnight, it all takes time.
you need to start small now, learn everything you can, read books, master excel and other betting software, develop your own stratergies / systems. then in a few years re-evaluate.

[presto]

What if I change my objective (above) to using gambling to get a sum of money together to start a business. I obviously won't need to touch the bank while I'm working so I'll be compounding the betting bank.


if you want to use gambling to get enough £££ to start a business then i will just say - don't even bother gambling.
even a minimum wage job can get you more money in the short term than gambling will.

[byepeeps]

Looks like you're right :) I just downloaded a spreadsheet showing the figures for 'NH Jumping for Profit' and it took a lot of time for it to turn into something really profitable - years. What I don't get is how you can stick to a system that hasn't increased the betting bank and after a year or so have less than you started with, yet carry on for longer and it turns into a huge amount.

Also on that spreadsheet it goes up to a bank balance of over £4 million! With bets of over £100k, is this realistic? Must be near impossible to get matched at that level without affecting the price?

[presto]

Looks like you're right :) I just downloaded a spreadsheet showing the figures for 'NH Jumping for Profit' and it took a lot of time for it to turn into something really profitable - years. What I don't get is how you can stick to a system that hasn't increased the betting bank and after a year or so have less than you started with, yet carry on for longer and it turns into a huge amount.

Also on that spreadsheet it goes up to a bank balance of over £4 million! With bets of over £100k, is this realistic? Must be near impossible to get matched at that level without affecting the price?

the problem with back fitting is - the difference between past and present. historically it may have been brilliant - but we wern't betting the selections then, so what happens now and in the future is what is important. history is guaranteed to stay the same forever - but the future isn't, what worked in the past may not in the future. - having said that, the past does provide good indicators for the future.

as for the £4m - in real life this will never happen, you will take money out of the bank at certain points, and you will probably have to limit to bet's of around £10k - no bookmaker likes winners, especially big ones, so bookmakers are out of the question.

[Street cry]

i am probably a good example for ya byepeeps. As i have just quit my job and am betting full time however .
I have been working every hour of my spare time for the last few years building up betting banks , learning and researching systems etc .
You could possibly make things pay from a smallish sum but you would have to create a massive turnover from a small sum this would mean .
Lots of systems small amounts preferably medium to high sr
Trading . dutching , arbing , hedging basically software use on betfair.
Trading would be your best option if u can learn how to do it which is hard in itself .
You need angles and lots of them , every race has one and you have to find it it could be avery overpriced looking favourite therefore a value lay ,
and some each way value . You may see that the market has lots of movement in it at the top end and therefore a trade is possible for a decent return . You will find that there are a few profitable dutches to be had through the day .
basically you have to turn over as much as you can obviously with some sort of margin and have that money back as quickly and as regularly as possible .
For example daily i will have systems and method bets i must get on aside to that i will have a lay or two . I will then look at every single race as it happens looking to dutch it if i can't dutch it i will possibly trade it even for just £1 or sometimes less !!!! You make a pound out of every race and there is your 9 grand a year .
If you can find a way to give your self some semblance of a regular income while your betting banks get some growth in to them then you are half way there . I would reccomend you buy bet ie as it is adecent programme that gives you good trading , dutching and hedging opportunities .
Another thing is learn to read the markets track your results against sp and fight for every point or 100th of a point you can get . good luck SC

[byepeeps]

Back fitting? Is that what's been done?

[Street cry]

back fitting is going back in time finding things that would have been profitable and basically making past results read as u want them too .
Usually created from contriving betting systems to be convaluted , too selective and unrealistic .

[Mavrick]

Some days, going back to work in a smoke ridden bookies full of:censored: seems quite appealing, especially when you've worked 7 days a week for a month and you have less now then when you started and you have little or no chance of getting a bank to give you money for a house. Some days though you think it's the best job in the world:)
You need to be realistic. It's far easier to make a decent income away from the betting scene. Even if that means spending three years at Uni getting a degree in computers, or becoming a plumber or something. You have to really want it or you will get nowhere.

[byepeeps]

Yeah I'm beginning to see that it's more difficult/stressful than a day job can be and possibly for less reward too. My day job is marketing so obviously I'm sceptical of all the claims that are made. I'd probably be better off as an affiliate, selling the systems!!!

'Street cry' are you saying you don't believe the systems on the win2win site would provide a good way to build up a good bank, as claimed for example here http://www.jumpingforprofit.co.uk/ (look at growth figure!) ? And do you think they've been 'back fitted' ?

[Street cry]

you seem to be unclear on what back fitting actually is .
Backfitting doesn't always occur especially if we go back and look at certain historical facts . Basically what i am saying is we have to downgrade a systems historical performance to be realistic .
and just because something happened last year and was profitable doesn't guarantee this year will be .
The more years you have to go at the better the future should be if simething has worked for the last 10 years solidly and similarily every year then we can be more confident . this does not withstand the changing enviroment where this can be changed as in such a case the last year of profit can be more indicative to the future than the previous 9 of 10 as the rules in the system are more conducive to profit in the future do to the relation between the variables and the current status of the effecive factors .
I know for a fact that keith has built the jumping and running for profit on very strong common sense variables which are both long term proven and compliant with current trends as the basic theory is inherent of market value .
So i am not saying that the w2w systems are backfitted but with most systems based on history back fitting is an issue the more convaluted the system the more likely backfitting is to occur now give me some rep ha ha ha ha

[marky72]

i run the jumping for profit system but ive only been doing it since end of october and touch wood its going alright for me

[Mavrick]

Well if you work in marketing and you are becoming interested in betting systems then you should read the book "Winning Without Thinking" by Nick Mordin. You will find the first chapter very appealing as it's about the author who is now a racing journalist who worked in the marketing game a few years ago, and he says there is a lot of benefit to be had by using systems to sells products as most of the common tv adverts are actually only based on about 10 templates and instead of racking your brain to think of a different way to sell a new product you just need to fit the current product into one of the templates you have used in the past. Which is basically a real world system. It's a really good book and well worth a read.

I'm not backing the jumping for profit system but, it certainly seems to be doing what it says on the tin. I would highly recommend if you're starting out to get either that system or the flat backing system, but not one of the laying systems and just get use to betting in a disciplined and systematic manner and recording your results on a spreadsheet. When you start to feel confident you can add another system to your repertoire.

To start of with I wouldn't recommend you joining the Win2Win service as you will have far to many systems to keep track of. Once your confident and you have a few betting banks set aside then you can.

The other alternative is to study form and come up with the bets yourself. It's not easy but well worth it in the long run. Or of cause you can do both, which is what I expect the majority of profitable punters do on here. You need to learn the basics about betting markets anyway to get the most out of any system you choose to follow.

[byepeeps]

I'll have to have a look at that book Mavrick. i've been paper trading a laying system and so far it has an 82% strike rate. Not enough data yet to go for it.

Streetcry I sort of see what you mean. I thought back fitting meant applying system rules to past events.

[Win2Win]

back fitting is going back in time finding things that would have been profitable and basically making past results read as u want them too .
Usually created from contriving betting systems to be convaluted , too selective and unrealistic .
:doh No it isn't.

The only way you can get any kind of systems is first to look for trends that work historically, otherwise you would never have anything to work on in the future and may as well use a pin?

You can't use future data to work on! All my systems and methods are based on backfitting trends.

[Mavrick]

If you already know a bit about the laying game then ignore my comments about not starting with a laying system. If I was just starting out, I would of found the ups and downs that they bring a bit hard too take. When you test you're laying system, I would add on 15% at least to the SP to allow for the overlay and commision to see if it will be profitable in the real world. It all depends on what the average price of your selections are, as the overlay isn't anywhere near as bad on the shorter priced horses as it is on the longer priced ones.
If your thinking about going down the form studying road I don't think you can go wrong by reading all of Mordins books. He gets a bit of stick on here but, I think there is a lot of good stuff in them. Also give Keiths ebook on gambling a read if you haven't already.

[Street cry]

sorry wasn't too clear there was in a rush and reading back does sound a bit confusing i knew what i meant ha ha . What i was trying to say was that in back fitting ie using the past to predict the future by applying set variables to previous results it can be unrealistic if there isn't actually a solid trend behind the results .
therefore meaning we can apply variables and uncover a seemingly profitable system but the profitability could be coincidental or unprofitable if non compliant with current circumstance . For example if the bhb decided a penalty in handicaps before reassessment should rise 4lbs across the board the last however many years results would be irrelevant in the assessment of handicappers reappearing under a penalty .
I was trying to highlight the problems which can occur with back fitting rather than define it .

[byepeeps]

Mavrick, excuse my ignorance but do I add 15% if I'm using live prices on an exchange to do my paper trading? I think my average price of lay is around 4, cut off is 6.

[presto]

if you use 'exchange prices' you should be ok, i think mav is on about using SP.