System banker software

[mickmd]

:spinningHi i am using these selection via the exchanges and have started with a betting bank of £1000.
the software is setting the stakes at around the 2 pound mark for nearly all the selections.just wondering if this is correct as would have expected higher with the starting bank amount.
If the staking seems correct when can i expect to see the stake to rise.
Well chuffed with results so far 10 bets 6 wins
cheers mick:spinning

[cantonachris]

Hi Mick,

I'm no expert on the software, thats best left to Keith and the longer term members, however I have been using the software for a couple of months and the standard stake seems to be 0.2% of whatever your bank is. As the bank increases so should the stake.

After a loser the software sets the stake to recover the losing stake and make a slight profit. To avoid stakes getting too high following a series of losers the initial stake is quite low to protect the bank. This will become apparent when a couple of odds-on shots get turned over without a winner in between.

The idea being slow and steady profits without undue risk to the bank. Well at least that my interpretation of whats going on!:doh

[tophatter]

You will see why the stakes are around £2.00 when a losing run of a few bets occur.

Its a nice controlled way of stepping staking and the idea is, as Cantona says, that the bank will increase after every losing run.

It has done that very nice for me so far. I have made 114 bets at a strike rate of 41% and my bank has increased 12.8%.

The stakes will eventully increase but the software is geared to looking after your bank first and foremost.

Glad you are enjoying as the system banker is already one of my favourites as it is a different way of staking compared to the other banks i run so its a nice variation on a theme.

[Win2Win]

As with ANY staking plan, the object is to protect the bank, and the software does this by taking a number of variables into account. The reason why the vast majority break the banks on this type of plan is because they have no bank management, research or risk assessment in place. Without them......at some point BOOM!!!!

Although any staking plan can be busted at some point, you have to build in enough security to try and prevent it.

You will appreciate what the software can do over a few weeks.

You can always run a side bank on just the selections, as they are profitable on there own.

[Mavrick]

What has been the average annual bank increase using this software?

[Mavrick]

Ignore that. I should have had a read first.

[tophatter]

Tell you what i will do for anyone who is interested in the software but are not 100% sure

I will post my stats on both this and odds on software daily showing how much the banks have raised or fallen up to the end of september

Like I have said before I can't place every bet due to work constraints but im honest and I will also say how many losing and winning bets i have missed.

Thats how much i rate this software.

[Mavrick]

I think that's all I needed to hear TH:thumbs

I'm going to give them ago with a couple of smallish banks.

[tophatter]

Just start them small Mav and use an online bookmaker so you can put the small bets on. Then when you are more comfortable and bank has risen you can either use the exchange function that takes into account the £2.00 min bet or you can add more to the banks.

Im using the bookmaker stakes at moment so most of my bets are under £2.00. Have still managed to make £64.00 profit in just over 100 bets so although you think you are betting very small most of the time it does allow you to build up profit nicely.

[Mavrick]

Them results sound very impressive. I hope I don't cause a correction:)
It's going to feel very strange going back to using a bookmaker so I'll probably take the risk and use £2 min bets. On my head be it.

[tophatter]

As keith says you could also have a level stake bank side bank and that way you could place both the advised bookmaker stake and the level stake bet all as one. Its totally up to you, the system has got an option set up for you using the exchanges so either way is legitimate.

I think you will find it ok as even if there is corrections as the whole idea of the software is the staking ensures you profit after a losing run. So if a correction is on the premises what it might mean is you have to place a few bigger bets which is why the bank has to comfortable money for you.

As with most things with gambling one of the biggest dangers is bottling things when things are tough which is why the bank should be small to begin with. You should be fine because you are doing it small and that is how everyone should start every bank. If it works you turn big eventully anyhow. If it dont you just put it down to experience but you are able to give it every chance to work.

[Mavrick]

Yeah that's a good idea, then at least if I do break the bank I know it was just my staking that did it.

Just to double check. If there are multiple selections given in a day, I can only place a bet on the first selection until I know it's result, as I won't know what stake to put on the next one(s)?

[tophatter]

yep, thats why i cant do them all as im at work.

have been doing the weekend and evening bets and ones when im off work. I would say there are usually between 10 and 15 bets on a normal weekend. maybe 3 or 4 on a normal days racing. so if you can only do the weekend you are probably getting on for doing half the bets anyway. It dont really matter if you miss bets as the strike rate is high and losing runs dont matter as the staking takes into account the price you are taking and the previous bets you have managed to strike. So if you end up missing a load of short price horses and bet on longer ones the stake is adjusted according to the price not just the run you are on.

[Mavrick]

Right, I've got it thanks. This sounds a very refreshing way to bet as you won't mind the losers anywhere near as much, and I won't feel obligated to getting every possible bet on. I'm looking forward to giving this a go.

[Win2Win]

The software will work fine if you install it on a pen drive.

I will at some point put an eBook together about how it works, compared to other plans, etc.

[mathare]

I use it on a pen drive so I can use the software at work during the week and at home in the evenings and at weekends.

I started with a £200 bank around the start of August and by bank is up a few pence under £25 at the minute. I am very impressed with the software :thumbs

[cantonachris]

E-book would be good Keith, I look forward to it.

[tophatter]

just the one winner today from 6 bets.

Bank down 1.40% on the day.

Strike rate now stands at 40% from 117 bets with a profit of 11.28%

[Mavrick]

Lots of seconds and a couple of them real close. I got 0.7/1 on the winner, so there was something positive to take out of it:D All in all it was an enjoyable day doing them and there should be quite a few more over the next couple of days. I tend to get dragged out by the missus at the weekend so I'll have to try and think of a good excuse for being house bound.

[tophatter]

yeah, and as long as you aint cursed it the losers dont matter anyhow. :)

My recent strike rate is still showing at 46.15% as against the overall at 40% so the software is actually saying there is a bit more of a chance of a loser or two yet before a winner for me.

Current losing run is 3 and when I started I had a winner and then a losing run of 5 so its a good confidence builer when you find your bank actually increases from its previous high each time you end a losing run.

[Mavrick]

I did say it was a possibility that I would jinx it:)

Hopefully if you mostly just play at the weekend then your high SR doesn't necessarily mean that there is a correction due overall, just that you should expect one:D

That's what I think appeals most to me about this as I don't mind at all really about the losers as you just think to yourself well the next bet I'll have more on it. Goes completely against what you think is sensible when it comes to betting, but if it works. Great

[tophatter]

I did say it was a possibility that I would jinx it:)

Hopefully if you mostly just play at the weekend then your high SR doesn't necessarily mean that there is a correction due overall, just that you should expect one

You have it in one.

Thats why missing bets dont really matter. As it is high strike rate you would have to be cursed to miss all the winning bets and only get on the losers.

It is quite possible for someone to be on a good run while someone is on a bad run. But as it is a stepping plan driven by price variation it dont matter.

[tophatter]

1/09

3 winners from 6 bets.

Bank up 2.39% on the day

Strike rate now stands at 41% from 123 bets with a profit of 13.94%

[Mavrick]

Almost got the bank into profit today. Got a rubbish price on the first winner, but made up for it on the last. My SR is 33% athe moment. Roll on 2moro.

[tophatter]

02/09/07

3 bets today which all lost.

Bank down 1.08% on the day.


Strike rate now stands at 40% from 126 bets with a profit of 12.71%

[Mavrick]

As keith says you could also have a level stake bank side bank and that way you could place both the advised bookmaker stake and the level stake bet all as one.

By level stake you mean the same % don't you, not the same actual stake, for example, not £10 for each bet, but say 3% or something of your betting bank like a normal system. I always get mixed up with these two on the forum. I think I'm gonna give that ago as well as I like high strike rate systems.

Has anyone compared the two sets of staking just out of interest? Or have any idea what the ROI might be at level stakes?

[Win2Win]

Level stakes is just that, level......£10 per bet, nothing more, nothing less. If he was using 3% that would be a Percentage Staking plan.

You can compare by downloading the results.

[mickmd]

Have updated to the monthly subscription but am unable to get to selections page.Never had this problem when on weekly wondering if anyone else has encountered this problem.can access my other selection on running for profit and jumping for profit auto systems.hope it works before racing starts.

[Mavrick]

Level stakes is just that, level......£10 per bet, nothing more, nothing less. If he was using 3% that would be a Percentage Staking plan.

You can compare by downloading the results.

Gotcha

[Mavrick]

Just a quick one. I take it a % would be better then level stakes.

[tophatter]

03/09/07

3 winners from 6 selections. I missed 3 selections two of which lost and the other won at 11/8.

Bank up 1.93% on the day.


Strike rate now stands at 40% from 132 bets with a profit of 14.88%

[tophatter]

04/09/07

2 winners from 4 selections.

Bank up 0.38% on the day.


Strike rate now stands at 40% from 136 bets with a profit of 15.31%

I wont be able to do any tomorrow as wont have access to my pc.

[Mavrick]

05/09/07

I make it 4 winners from 9 selections.

Bank up 2.4% on the day

I'm using the exchange function not the bookmaker function so other people may have slightly different results.

[tophatter]

nice work Mav,

like i say i could not do the banker bets today and wont be able to do them tomorrow either. Glad you had what looks a pretty decent day though.

[Mavrick]

Yes it was quite a good day. You seem to get some decent priced winners as well with this. I'm also running a side bank as suggested at 2.5% staking and that's up 13.3% since I started!!

[mathare]

My bank is up £32.16 (16%) in a month. 141 bets with 63 winners for an SR of 45%. My recent SR is 46.15% with average odds of 2.91. I am really impressed with it and love the look of my P/L graph:

[Mavrick]

06-08-07

Not a great day. 0 winners from 4 bets

Bank dropped 2.73%

[Mavrick]

Made a bit of a :icon_tong up today. I missed the last bet which won because of betfair deciding to go a bit pete tong

It should have been 3 winners from 6 bets with a bank increase of 3.31%

Instead I ended up with 2 winners from 5 bets and a bank increase of 1.69%

Nevermind, I can live with that.

[tophatter]

ive been out tonight so im affected by alcohol but i know im up on the day because the last bet i placed won. Thats the beauty of how this thing works, every time you get a winner you have a bank bigger than it reached the last time you had a winner

[Win2Win]

every time you get a winner you have a bank bigger than it reached the last time you had a winner

Great insight from an alcoholic :laugh

[Mavrick]

A very up and down day that finished brilliantly:spinning

The last bet was a Running for Profit one as well so it was very much appreciated:thumbs

5 winners from 10 bets

Bank up a whopping 4.35%. You don't get that at HSBC.:D

[tophatter]

I missed the early bets which had 3 winners so I only had two winners on the day. Bank up 0.73% but would have been more.

Strike rate now stands at 40% from 145 bets with a profit of 17.08%

[tophatter]

09/09/07

5 bets today with just one winner, but as that winner was the selection I placed last it means the bank has a small increase of 0.24% on the day.

Bank up 0.38% on the day.


Strike rate now stands at 39% from 150 bets with a profit of 17.35%

[tophatter]

10/09/07

Got a bit lucky today as I could only do the first selection which won. There were three others, all which lost, but i could not do them. Then again I missed three winners on Saturday so it balances out and even if I had got those losers the next winner would replenish the bank anyhow.

Bank up 0.38% on the day.


Strike rate now stands at 40% from 151 bets with a profit of 17.57%

[Mavrick]

My laptop packed up last night and I've spent the whole day taking it a part and soldering some tiny annoying little part which for some reason keeps melting. I've put enogh solder on it now to keep a tin mine in business.

Judging by the results I wouldn't have made or lost much, but would have had to place a pretty big bet in the scheme of things which always get the heart going. A good day for a computer to go:)

[Street cry]

was a good day up 0.019%

[Win2Win]

was a good day up 0.019%

:woohoo: Let's have a bum party! :ooo

[Street cry]

ha ha better than a loss

[tophatter]

11/09/07

Again I could only do the first selection today and it lost this time.

looking at the other selections there were 3 winners from 7 with the last two selctions losing so my bank would have hit three new highs before faling back I would suspect to not far away from where it started.

Bank down on the day by 0.34%

Strike rate is 39% from 152 bets with a profit of 17.17%

[scaaty]

Just finished the first week using this software and I'm really impressed with it - dead easy to use and a nice steady profit. Started small with a bookie account and theoretical £250 bank ( really got just over £100 in the account but will top up if needed). So far my smallest stake has been 21p, the biggest £6.77 and I've made a profit of £9.44 :wiggle:

Excellent value at just £3 per week! :thumbs

[Mavrick]

I love this software as well, but I think because of the nature of the staking plan, I personally think ( and i'm ready to be shot down here ) that it's best to have a bank that, of course you are more then prepared to lose, but you also expect to lose eventually, unlike a more conventional system i.e 2% staking, as sooner or later you're gonna hit a losing run that will wreck any bank even using a system that has a 40%+ strike rate.

So my plan is to build up my bank to a certain point, and then take the profit from it when ever it goes over that level, so it doesn't build up any further, but gives me a constant source of income. When it breaks, I'll write it off and then start again.

[scaaty]

A few years ago, before I found this site, I dabbled with a doubling up system I bought on Ebay - didn't take me long to figure out that breaking the bank was inevitable and it was likely to happen sooner rather than later so I abandoned that pretty quickly. From what I've seen of it, Keith's staking is very much safer, but as he's said earlier in the thread, any staking plan can go bust and I think it makes perfect sense to do what you're planning.
I feel like I'm betting with free money at the moment - I stopped smoking in March and since then I've been putting the money I would have spent on cigarettes into new betting banks. I'll top up this bank every week until it reaches the level it needs to get the bets on Betfair and take advantage of the better odds, after that any profit is great but if the bank breaks, well, the money would only have gone up in smoke anyway !

[tophatter]

It all comes down to making sure you enjoy your betting. If you enjoy your betting then you are more liable to make money - I know it sounds daft but I believe in that 100%.

As long as you dont view your banks as money until you actually withdraw from it then you should be able to handle and indeed enjoy any challenges that are thrown at you along the way.

What you suggest Maverick is absolutley sensible. It will slow up long term growth because you are withdrawing from the bank but you are withdrawing real money. Ultimatley that is every gamblers aim - some like to withdraw after a certain period of time, some like to withdraw after a certain bank level has been reached and some like to withdraw a certain percentage of profit on a regular basis.

Again the good thing is the software has the facility to make a withdrawl (or a deposit) and it will work things out from there. Different banks and different systems will have different thresholds you are comfortable with - they dont all have to be the same because all systems and staking plans have different risks attached to them and therefore it is only natural to maybe have different plans when it comes to converting Bank profit into money (and make no mistake you must never treat bank profit as money until you have made that conversion, you never have money in your betting banks only profit and points that are available to convert into money if you so wish)

[Street cry]

I love this software as well, but I think because of the nature of the staking plan, I personally think ( and i'm ready to be shot down here ) that it's best to have a bank that, of course you are more then prepared to lose, but you also expect to lose eventually, unlike a more conventional system i.e 2% staking, as sooner or later you're gonna hit a losing run that will wreck any bank even using a system that has a 40%+ strike rate.

So my plan is to build up my bank to a certain point, and then take the profit from it when ever it goes over that level, so it doesn't build up any further, but gives me a constant source of income. When it breaks, I'll write it off and then start again.

I have used loss recovery in the past including live on here where betting to make £10 a point i regulary put on big wagers 4 figures at times i started with a 1000 points ie a ten grand bank. Keiths software is far safer than my approach as the recovery regression is far reduced from what i was attempting.

To get the same effect you could always revert back to original stake after winners so basically you do not increase the original bet value as the bank grows you only increase after a loser. This would mean that the longer you go the safer you are .
Personally i am going to keep it going till i get my 1 grand to 4 grand then take 2 grand out and restart the bank with 2 grand either that or i'll go bust we'll soon know good luck SC

[Mavrick]

Cheers SC. My plan was just to get it to a grand and take anything above that, as with this sort of thing I wouldn't feel comfortable with anything more in there as it could all get wiped out in a couple of days and from what I've heard the staking doesn't really change even with that much of a bank unless you hit a losing run, so hopefully I will have a lot more security built in then I have now and a nice residual income.

[Mavrick]

I missed EL BANDINDOS because it said Uttox 550 not 505 on the selection page;fire

I went out for a bit and made sure I was back in time and:splapme

[mathare]

I missed EL BANDINDOS because it said Uttox 550 not 505 on the selection page;fireI missed it too but I assumed I had copied the time down wrong. I should have checked it against the cards as I often do when a time strikes me as being odd. That one would have done had I not written down 5.50 and just assumed it was Kempton starting half an hour earlier than normal and not noting down the course. Had I written down Uttoxeter too I would have probably spotted the error.

[Mavrick]

I missed it too but I assumed I had copied the time down wrong. I should have checked it against the cards as I often do when a time strikes me as being odd. That one would have done had I not written down 5.50 and just assumed it was Kempton starting half an hour earlier than normal and not noting down the course. Had I written down Uttoxeter too I would have probably spotted the error.

Yes I should have clicked really considering I'd had a bet in the 335 at Uttox :doh

[Mavrick]

Not a bad set of results:D

[mickmd]

:spinning5 out of 5 for the day and got to say it looked like it was gonna happen soon by the results.some really unlucky losers over the past couple of days.
top tipping my banks up £105.44 on a £1000 bank in just over a fortnight.
89 bets 37 wins
keep up the good work guys:spinning

[Street cry]

yep 5 on the bounce cant fault that

[Win2Win]

yep 5 on the bounce cant fault that

Could have all been 100/1 :rolleyes:

[tophatter]

missed all of them today. Not a problem for me with the way it works - as its a drip drip thing missing winners aint so bad although having said that I wish I had been able to do them obviously!

[alfazzr1100]

I thought I had Jinxed it by joining in today for real (not papertrading) but at least the third one came up good (2.64 at lunchtime) I see it got to 3.25 SP - damn.

Still a few pence down on the day but there's always tomorrow.

That was with level £2 stakes as I haven;t got the software reloaded and I'm using Betfair anyway. How did it fair with the staking plan in action ?

Ian

[tophatter]

I could not do them again today but if you use the bookmker feature and stake precisely as it says then every time you get a winner the bank reaches a new high.

[mathare]

I missed the middle one so had a 40p loser followed by 36p on a 9/4 shot to finish ahead by 41p for the day. Doesn't sound much (and it isn't) but the £200 starting bank is over 19% up in under 6 weeks.

[alfazzr1100]

I really do not understand staking plans. If you have a regular pattern of winners and losers (say 25% strike rate) and exactly every fourth one winning ytou could obviously increase the stake after every loser knowing that when you get a winner it will be bigger than the losers. Better still if you knew that much you wouldn't bother betting on the losers.

However, as we don't know the pattern, and I assume it's fairly random, surely any other staking plan is only a guess. If you reduce the stake after a winner (expecting a loser) you lose out if you unexpectedly get a winner - and so on.

I suprised myself the other day looking at a system of my own that I am papertrading. After 40 days (120 bets) it was showing to be 11 pts up. so with level stakes of say £5 thats £55 gain - total stakes £600. I then tried a percentage stake assuming a starting bank of £100 and a 5% stake (again initially £5 per bet) and get just £4 profit overall - total stakes £715. However, with 2% stakes on a theoretical bank of £250 (again £5 initial bet) gives £37 profit overall - total stakes £682.

With the level stakes the more you bet the more you win, with the percentage stakes the more you bet the less you win. It obviously depends on the win pattern as I said earlier and when you lose with large stakes (in a percentage system) but I just can't see it yet.

I am sure The Staking Machine would come up with some clever optimum but would this not be curve fitting to past results with no guarantee that that pattern would continue ?

Ian

[Vic]

Ian - Keiths staking plan has been statistcally developed over many thousand examples - that's no guarantee, but is very carefully thought out.

Along the lines of your example, if you have something that gives you around a 37% strike rate and 9/10% poi then even at 2% of your bank you run a very strong risk of losing in excess of 80% of your bank - and more often than you'd think. The thing is to work out the risk reward ratio and work to that. I can tell you from personal experience that it's one thing looking at past history and seeing a 80% loss followed by a 200% gain, and another all together being on the wrong end of an 80% loss - very hard to retain the faith when you're in a black hole.:mover, no matter what history tells you.

[alfazzr1100]

Vic,
Thanks, I totally agree with your comment that a papertraded dip in bank in retrospect is totally different to riding through it for real - very scary!

Not such a good day for System Banker yesterday but I did warn you I'd have that effect.

I was just thinking about TopHatters comment about getting a new high for every winner. I could only see this working by increaseing stakes for every loser (or knowing the pattern in advance) and I think that is called "chasing your losers" which we all know its a bad idea. I know SB does not do this as it is a very secure system. I'll have to open a booky accoutn to use other than the exchange feature.

[Win2Win]

and I think that is called "chasing your losers" which we all know its a bad idea

It is for people who have no idea of research, losing runs, average odds, SR, etc, and that goes for ANY staking plan. Do the majority of systems with 5% levels, use 10%, and you will bust nearly every bank, and yet some sites tell you to use just that.

You have to remember that any staking is setup to 'recover losses' otherwise what do they all do adter a losing run? It is all a question of how the risk management is setup to protect the bank in the first place.

[Street cry]

all followers , be careful today on 2 occassions 2 races going off within 5 minutes of each other and with saturday racing being what it is delays might make things tricky so be sharp and make sure you get on SC

[Win2Win]

Luckily the 4.00 only take just over a minute to run.

[tophatter]

There is a world of difference between what I would call chasing losses and a staking plan.

The staking is very modest on this for the intial bet in comparision to any conventional % staking plan or level stakes on a 35% -40% strike rate system. If you can describe it as chasing then its a bit like chasing a tortoise rather than a leopard. Give this tortoise a 5 race headstart and you can catch it easy without breaking into too much of a sweat - try doing that with a leopard and you will need to jump in a sports car!

Everytime we catch the tortoise we earn a bit of a fee - not big bucks but its nice easy work. The bloke chasing the leopard has to work that much harder and cant give it hardly any headstart. He might earn one or two bigger fees short term but he is likely to eventully get the sack or have to leave his job through heart failure!

[tophatter]

15/09/07

First time I could do these for a few days. The first one won, but the following siz lost. Then I got a winner, followed by the last two winning so it was a good day. When you get successive winners it gives the bank a nice boost as the first stake in any run is not price relevant. So I had a full stake on a horse that won at 4.3/1 and 3/1 for me as the last two selections.

4 winners from 10

Bank up on the day by 2.90%

Strike rate is 39% from 163 bets with a profit of 20.45%

[alfazzr1100]

Thanks, TopHatter, with litterary similies like that your wasted on here. I like System Banker from the little I've seen (although it I'm down on it so far) alsthough up today after a shaky start. I would not be down so much although I missed that it increased the stake at one time (I was getting used to the £2 bets and it suggested £6 odd on Bellomi but I only place £2) I'll have to watch the screen more closely.

With some of the close races and other commitments I placed some of the bets ahead of their time so I played "what ifs" seeing what stake it would suggest if the the next one won or lost, for the race after next if you see what I mean. In the case I tried it was saying £2 whether the next one won or lost, so I placed it early. (Having to reset the history file each time).

W'ell see what tomorrow brings.
Ian

[alfazzr1100]

Sorry, our last posts "crossed" - yes I got the same sort of thing only I got 2.92, 5.3 and 4.2 on the last three and I bunged an extra quid on the last one for good measure.

[tophatter]

I would just keep it nice and easy and do the ones you are around to do and not bother with the others. It is a small increase in bank each time a winner occcurs its not like you are working on a small strike rate system with big priced winners and in any case the bigger prices have reduced stakes.

I started with a £500 bank and bank is now £602.00. My starting stake is still quite a bit under £2.00 and sometimes even step 4 can be below that if the price is high.

[Street cry]

i missed the last 2 today as i cant do tomorrows and didnt want to carry aloss good day though five days on these 3 % bank growth

[Mavrick]

I think this software should come with a couple of pairs of clean underwear included as I hardly slept last night thinking about what stakes I might have to play today:D

[Win2Win]

That's why;
a) You count the bank as lost already
b) When the bank doubles for the first time, take the profit out.

[alfazzr1100]

Is it my imagination or does this sytem get better later in the day. for the short time I have been watching/using it the strike rate after about 5pm is 50% or over.

Have you ever used timing of events as a filter ?

Ian

[tophatter]

Ian, dont even bother thinking about filters.

I have been system betting for over four years now and trust me me I have seen many posts looking for ideas to tinker with something when it is more likely to be a hinderance to them rather than a help.

With this particular system it is even more of a hinderance. Let me explain why.

Losers do not matter to you, its the number of winners you get that matters because the staking makes the losers irrelevant. Cut down on the amount of bets you make, and you cut down on the amount of winners. Even if you had 5 losers in a row in the day, if the last one won then you will have lost out on a bit of profit.

You could just bet on the ones after 5.00pm if you like but all you would be doing is lowering your turnover and therefore would take longer to amass the profit. There is nothing wrong with that as I miss many bets too, but it would not be helping you make your bank grow quicker, my advice is, keep it simple, do the bets when you can and only when you can and do what the software tells you to do. No bottling, no over confidence just plug away

[tophatter]

2 winners from 6 today. Bank down a little on the day but the important thing is another two winners in the hutch.

Bank down on the day by 0.14%

Strike rate is 39% from 169 bets with a profit of 20.28%

[Mavrick]

0.07 on a maiden flat race. I'm not one for bottling things, but I can't lay out 125 quid it. I would go insane if it lost. I know I'm breaking the rules, but I just can't do it.

[Win2Win]

Well if you are bottling it, you shouldn't be doing it, as a losing run of 10+ will put you in a similar situation, bottle out, bank gone.

[Mavrick]

I know you're right Keith. I can handle the large stakes after a losing run, but that just felt far too weird. I'll get it together:)

[mickmd]

:thumbsdue a good run of winners soon i think tomoz could be it last time thirsk was on all 3 won same tomoz would be nice and with a recent strike rate of 26% and overall of 39% the odds of a good run look good to me
heres hoping:thumbs

[alfazzr1100]

Yep Mick, that sounds about right because since I started on Thursday I've had a strike rate of 24% and lost about 30% of the bank - I did warn Kieth to expect a dip in results.

BUT the good news for you lot is that I can't do it tomorrow as I'm in London in a couple of meetings so I reckon 100% sounds about right :doh

Call me stupid - I do, but I only just realised that the software expects you to enter decimal odds minus the stake point so 3.3 on Betfair goes in as 2.3 on System Banker, lucky I run my own spreadsheet aswell or I would not have noticed despite the little reminder every time - which I didn't understand :splapme

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mavrick]

I only just realised that the software expects you to enter decimal odds minus the stake point so 3.3 on Betfair goes in as 2.3 on System Banker

By the sound of it Ian, that's where your 30% has gone. After a losing run, it will make a huge difference if you enter a short priced horse in with the 1pt stake included.

For example. There was a 1/10 shot today which wanted me to stake £125.41 on it. If I had entered the price plus the stake which you have been doing, then it would have been more like a fiver!!

[alfazzr1100]

Yes, I agree Mavrick, I am going to make good use of the train journey by re-entering all the figures from the start, as they should have been.

[Win2Win]

I've had a strike rate of 24% and lost about 30% of the bank

You can't pay any attention to the stats with so few bets to pick from, as you have just started, plus we just finished a very good run last week, culminating with 5 decent priced winners in a row.

You also have not 'lost' any of the bank, unless you have done something wrong! The instructions cleary state to deduct one point from Betfair prices, as that is what you do with Betfair/exchanges anyway. You do not add 1 point to SP do you, which is what you have been doing!

[mickmd]

:spinningwell 2 bets 2 wins 100% for the day so all in all a good day.

recentstrike rate still lowish so a good run of results still looks good to me:thumbs

[alfazzr1100]

Well at least I predicted the 100% success rate for today right. I must say I did miss the instruction to deduct 1 from the Betfair result and unfortunately I did not connect the "DO NOT include 1 point stake" message with the odds.

However, learn from your mistakes I always say. It just shows the power of the staking plan that even at 24% SR I should have been a little bit up rather than 25-30% down on the bank.

However, what I learned was confusing too. Whilst on the train I went back and re-entered all the horses and results since last Thursday several times, with £100 starting bank using an exchange with 5% commission, £100K starrting bank using an exchange with 5% commission and £100 starting bank using a bookmaker.

On the first trial, when I got to yesterday's winner, Grand Heights at 1.09 (entered as 0.09 this time) it suggested a stake of £134.52 (just as you said Mavrick) but the bank was only £94.57 at the time. Now I quite accept that I get things wrong sometimes - that is obvious, but I have a screen dump of this and I can't see where I am going wrong.

I now know why TopHatter was saying the bank gets to a new high everytime you get a winner and hence my discussion at that time about staking plans. Including my problem return above with Grand heights for a moment, over the 33 tips I would have ended up £2.07 (rather than down £28) and I am very encouraged by this apart from the big stake. However, if I had ommitted every bet where it told me to go for the minimum of £2 and only placed those over £2, I would have been up £25.82. This is of course ironed out with the huge bank case or the bookmaker which can seet the minimum stake without being affected by the min stake and both of these also make the 2.2% return on the same 33 bets and whilst this can be increased to around 5% by omitting the lowest stakes they are not affected by anywhere near the same amount. Incidentally, the stake on Grand Heights with the £100K starting bank was a wopping £18,044.

the other bits that were of interest to me in all this retrospectivity was that I got an average 16% overbet overall, 18% on losers and 10% on winners but this was mainly placing the bets all at once (and I know this breaks the system rules before you point it out but I have no choice).

Overall I wasn't too upset with the losses as they stood which I put down to the SR which I thought would recover so the news that it would have been much better if I could read I take as a positive.

Right, I will start following it again when I can with the correct staking and see what happens - shame I missed todays successes. (but if anyone can help me over what i did wrong to get the "stake bigger than the bank" mentioned above I'd appreciate it.)

Ian

[Mavrick]

You didn't do anything wrong Ian. The software expected you to deposit more money into it using the deposit function so you could cover the bet. Looking at the results over the years, losing runs of 8+ are actually quite common, so if you only have around £100 in your bank, I think you will come unstuck quite often.

I would just use the software when you can and not place the bets in advance, unless you are using the exchange function after a winner as the stake is normally £2 for the next couple of bets unless the odds are really low. I expect this isn't the advised thing to do.
Or just run two banks which is what I do and and stake a fixed % on one of them. I use 2.5%. This way you can have a much bigger starting bank with out worrying about losing it all in a very short period of time and you can stick all the bets on at the same time like a normal system.

[alfazzr1100]

Yes, but if I had placed all bets as advised but missed the 30% of bank on bellomi at 1.86 and Grand Heights at 1.09 (only placing say £10 or 11 - 13% of the bank) I would have lost 20% over this run.

I quite accept Keiths point though that this is too short a run to make judgements over and I am not trying to do this - just trying to fully understand what I am doing. I do find it strange though to have the idea of a betting bank and then stake 142% of it! I am sure this isn't the intention.

Ian

[Mavrick]

For all we know though, Bellomi may have been the only winner during a losing run of 14, so missing that one out could have caused you to completely ruin your bank.
I think a betting bank of £100 is too low, but if you had started these a couple of months ago, maybe you're betting bank would have been big enough to cope with that big bet. It all depends on when you start it. I personally didn't back Grand Heights, I couldn't bring myself to lay out that money on a 0.07/1 shot. I should have and it could of wrecked my bank because I didn't. Like Keith told me, you have to do exactly as it says or not at all. There's no point picking and choosing your stake or the selections as the software is developed from 1000s of bets.

[Street cry]

one thing i insist upon doing is if i know i aint gonna be around say on sunday i will stop on my last winner i wouldn't say stop on a losing run of 7 say i did and the next bet was a winner or there was a winner in the section i missed and then i hit 9 losers on my return i'd be stuffed .

[cantonachris]

I suggest Alfazzr that you read the thread i started in the 'software and bots' section of the hidden members area. This should shed a bit of light on your questions around staking with the banker software.

Just for the record i checked back over the last 4 weeks, my strike rate using the banker software is 42% and the bank has increased by 16%. However i did miss a couple of days where the selections for the day didn't perform well.

The beauty of the software is that it doesn't matter if you miss a day, the software picks up from where you left off previously.

[alfazzr1100]

Cantonachris, I'd love to read that thread, firstly because it may shed some light on my confusion and secondly because I am interested in learning more about bots but unfortunately at present I do not have access to that. Perhaps soon I will take that step. Do you use bots and if so how have you found it ?

To add to my confusion, by the way, the bookmaker system stake on Grand Heights was £18 and the £100k starting bank exchange stake was £18k (makes sense x1000) so why would the exchange system with a £100 bank give £134.52 stake - seems disproportionate.

Ian

[scaaty]

I personally didn't back Grand Heights, I couldn't bring myself to lay out that money on a 0.07/1 shot. I should have and it could of wrecked my bank because I didn't.


I didn't back Grand heights either and I still think that was the right decision - yes, not backing it could have wrecked the bank if it had won and then been followed by several losers, but it could have wrecked the bank a whole lot faster if it had lost and been followed by just a few losers!


There's no point picking and choosing your stake or the selections as the software is developed from 1000s of bets.

But people miss selections because they can't do weekends, or can't do evenings etc - if that's ok, then missing out one selection because the odds are insane is surely ok too ? I know the software's been developed over 1000s of bets, but how many 1000s would it take before you get odds like that ? Seemed to me that those odds were a freaky one-off thing, so I decided to skip it. Before that the lowest odds I've had were 1.28, and I didn't even think twice about that one, the software said back it so I did, but 1.05 ? ( that was the best available at the bookies) Nope, I just couldn't do it and if it happens again I still won't do it and I'll accept the consequences !


Been using the software for two weeks now, the starting bank of £250 is now a nice healthy £270.03 and my base stake has gone up from 42p to 45p - at this rate I'll reach the betfair minimum in no time ! :thumbs

[tophatter]

I agree that missing the odd bet dont matter and that one was very much a one off.

I think though independent of that freakish price bet it is good opportunity to make the point though that eventully, at some point, the system will hit a longish losing run and you may well be asked to place a big bet especially if its an odds on shot and the run already contains short priced losers.

That is when you have to be cold and do the bet. The way I look at it is this. If I am about and I can place the bets, then I place them. Im not going to start missing uncomfortable bets by phsycologically fooling my mind into saying "I might have been down the shops so I will pretend I was"

I agree with Scaaty when she says that horse was a one off as you dont get horses that short often but just dont get into habbit of baulking at placing bigger bets on normal odds on shots as in the spread of a strike rate these will naturally be at the higher end. Removing them methodically will make it a lower strike rate system and that will throw it all out of synch. When you miss bets on a random basis it evens out, but if you start applying a method to them it will eventully affect the Strike rate. As Scaaty says she did not flinch at placing a bet at 1/4 but some people might. 1/4 is short but is an acceptable price and it is that short for a very good reason.

I could not do the bet, but for the record I would have skipped it too but I would have "fined myself" by recording it as if I had done it and depositing the amount I would have won if I had bet on it into the bank manually and then restarting back at the base bet. As I was out, I could not do it so I dont need to fine myself. Its just something I have always done when I make mistakes or have situations like that as It keeps me disciplined - I must be a masochist! :)

[Mavrick]

Some refreshing comments. I'm glad I'm not the only that couldn't back Grand Heights. I've been thinking about it and I have decided I will back anything 1/5 or bigger. I can mentally handle that.
When I said that we shouldn't pick and choose bets I was referring to what Ian said about if he had only placed £10 or 11%-13% and not the advised stake on "Grand Heights" and about only backing the horses that required stakes over £2 and not below it. I probably got the wrong end of the stick.

The reason why the staking was different Ian between the bookmaker and the exchange function was simply because there was more money to recover as you'd had to stake more for all the losing exchange bets. At 1/10 you need to stake £10 just to recover £1 of your lost stakes so it's going to make a huge difference if you've had to start with betfairs min. bet instead of the bookmakers bets. If you've only lost 5 bets at £2 each then you'll need to stake £100 at 1/10! The bookmakers stakes would have been much less.

[tophatter]

yep, I would always advise you to use the bookmakers stakes if possible if you have a bank under a grand. What I sometimes do is use the exchange stake for the first bet and then go back to the bookmaker stakes. The second, third and even fourth bets can sometimes be lower than that initail first bet if they happen to be longer priced horses.

Using a bookmaker means you can place much less on the longer priced horses which is ideally what you want to be doing, rather than the same stake. That measn that during a losing run if a short odds on horse appears the cumulative effect means the bet you would have to place on that could be quite a bit less than if you were using a min bet.

Its like I said a couple of weeks back, it seems you are sometimes betting very small in comparision to your bank but there is good reason behind it. There will come a point when you see exactly why its telling you to stake the way it is and you will be grateful for the software.

I love this system banker stuff - and im fully expecting the software to make it one of my fastest growing win banks this year as I wont have to worry about when to raise and lower stakes as I do on my conventional staking banks.

[Win2Win]

Horses of 1/16 do not come along very often these days, lucky if you get 2-3 a year now, and then most wouldn't qualify, and very, very few horses of those prices lose, they are profitable to follow long-term on their own.

With regard to actually putting the bet on, your bank would only be broke if it lost, and only around a 4% chance of it doing so on that horse. You couldn't ask for better odds to break a losing run.

[Win2Win]

Some refreshing comments. I'm glad I'm not the only that couldn't back Grand Heights. I've been thinking about it and I have decided I will back anything 1/5 or bigger. I can mentally handle that.

But it is longer priced horses that are more likely to break losing runs.....what if.....you have 7 losers.....then the next 3 win at 1/8 ........you then have 9 losers.....then a 1/6 wins.......eveyone is happy......whereas your rule has just broke the bank, as you are physically adjusting the average SR yourself over the long term, and the software is not built for that SR so WILL break.

[alfazzr1100]

Hi,

Thast's the beauty of discussing things on here, its not just the answers but the clarity of thought you get from the discipline of writing it down. After I finished last night and went and sat in the bath - Eureka - I realised that using the exchange with such a small bank was the problem because of having to cover the minimum £3 for every loser.

But you've already come to that conclusion. I did back it for £6 so made 50p :spinning

But that was because I'd entered 1.09 not 0.09 as I've said before.

Just backed them all today :splapme now back to work ! Just can't follow rules me :headbange

Thanks

Ian

[Win2Win]

Well you should be doing all the qualifiers to 3% then, adjusted daily, and forget the software.

[mickmd]

Another dissapointing day for the system banker for the second day running a short priced winner followed by a string of losers.a very slow week for the system and recent strike rate well down again.
Heres hoping for a change of luck tomoz

[Win2Win]

How can it be dissapointing? You are going to get 60 losers every 100 bets, so you have to fit them in some where!!

[tophatter]

Another winner means you banked another bit of profit. Thats the whole point of it. The losers dont matter because all it means is when the next winner comes you win more on it. In effect you took another step forward today because you had that winner, when you get the next one you wont be any worse off than you are now even if you have to stake 8 or 9 more losers - you will be better off.

[tophatter]

20/09/07

Managed to do the two late ones today which both lost. Missed a winner and three losers earlier on.

Bank down on the day by 0.31%

Strike rate is 39% from 171 bets with a profit of 19.90%

[Mavrick]

Just out of interest. Does anyone else run these to a fix % or level stakes with a side bank?

[Win2Win]

Just out of interest. Does anyone else run these to a fix % or level stakes with a side bank?

Yes. Up over 5 figures this year. :thumbs

[Mavrick]

Ta Keith.

[alfazzr1100]

I make it 26% Sr over the last 46 tips (thats every one since last Thursday).

That would give a loss of 31.23% on a 2% stake or just 19.02% on a level stake but I managed to convert that into a 52% loss by judicious use of the wrong stake and the only two tips I missed were both winners giving me an effective SR of 21%.

Its a shame because when I paper traded it I got 45% over 40 bets and a 14% increase in the paper bank. Oh well I suppose it should come round but I'll need to top up the almost broken bank.

I look forward to the day when I can share TopHatters rosie outlook and celebrate the losers.

However I have just cheered myself up (I think) by looking at the history download for System Banker and the longest run of bets with a rolling SR (over 40 bets) of under 28% was a run of 58 tips until it has recovered to 32% but the average recovery over this range is 24 tips. The quickest recovery from below 28% SR to say 45% was only 30 tips or less than a week (although the longest recovery over this range was 209). Let's hope I haven't cursed it.:yikes:

Ian

[MattR]

Just out of interest. Does anyone else run these to a fix % or level stakes with a side bank?


Yes I'm doing it to 3% stakes. Started with a 200 bank towards end of last month. Had a high of 300 and currently at a low of 152

[tophatter]

Ian, my post was not a "Rosey outlook celebrating losers", read it again and hopefully you will see all I was trying to explain was that each winner in effect earns you a fee if you use the software properly.

It just shows you are not reading what I am saying if you come to the conclusion that I was celebrating losers in that previous post. How anyone can draw that conclusion is beyond me. As far as I can see if you have bet everyone since last Thursday and have a 26% strike rate from 46 system selections (note they are selections not tips) that means you have 12 winners and so your bank should have increased 12 times and you are on a losing run of 4, next winner will make it increase number 13 if you were doing things right and so render the previous losers irrelevant.

Mind you how anyone could near break a bank using this software after just 46 bets and a 26% strike rate or 21% or whatever percentage you want to use as an example is also beyond me. Even to level stakes you would not be in a precarious position with a strike rate like that over so few bets. Even if you were doing this to level stakes at 1% of starting bank and the average winning price of each horse was a meagre 1/2 you would only be 28% down on the figures you have given. I reckon a more realistic average winning price is more like at least 2/1, and on my figures it is more, and that would mean you would be about 10% down max.

[mickmd]

maybe because the last few weeks on this system have produced better results that i am bit dissapointed, not so many consecutive winners this week hence a slower build up on the profit front.
Dont get me wrong overall i am very impressed with the system and staking plan.Todays losing bets were all at longer prices than usual and to be fair the races were not easy to pick .
yesterday was disappointing more in the fact that some horses didnt run anywhere near their reflected market prices.hey but thats racing i guess a profit is still a profit and i am infront still by some way even after todays losing run.:thumbs

[Mavrick]

Thanks Matt. My figures are about the same as yours.

Looking at everyones figures and Mats in his blog, the SR was running above normal anyway so this recent run isn't really surprising. I wish I knew how to use Excel as well as everyone else here so I could interrogate results better. I'll try and find a free ebook like a dummies guide or something.

[Win2Win]

Just because a system/method produces a 40% SR over a year, it does not mean that is consistent. You could have 60% for 3 months, followed by 15% for the next 3 months, but at the end of the year it will be around 40%.

[mickmd]

Yeah fair comment i realise the system percentages are based on many years stats and results. Just seeing short priced runners running well below expected level obviously clouding my judgement a little.
Just out of intrest does the system seem to perform better during the national hunt campaign?

[Win2Win]

No idea, it works 52 weeks of the year, as is for me, so no need to look for niches in the data.

[alfazzr1100]

TopHatter, sorry, no offence intended, perhaps "philosophical view of losers" would have been better wording. I am very much in awe of the staking plan and wish I was in a position to follow it. I definitely would recommend (as you did earlier) that using the bookmaker setting would be better if the starting bank is small because you can get the same growth results without the very high stakes suggested for low odds horses after a few losers.

When you mis selections, do you enter them in the software anyway ? If not I am surprised the staking system works properly because I presume it was based on the expected frequency of winners that the selection system finds. (I think what I am trying to say, in other words, is that if you happen to have backed 3 losers in a row and then missed a couple of winners the staking system would suggest a different result depending on whether it was taking those two winners into account or not). I think this borders on what Street Cry was saying earlier - I'll go back and read that again.

Incidentally, my calculations on variability of strike rate in the past was just intended to look at how quickly or otherwise it has climbed out of a low patch - and the answer is that it doesn't seam to stay low for long.

Regarding your comments on my losses, I have had 10 winners resulting in £33.64 profit and 34 losers costing £73 but I stress this is not using the staking plan but a hybrid between level stakes and the staking system depending what information I had available at the time.

Ian

[Win2Win]

Missing days is not a problem as even random data will give you the required 40% SR each year, slecting which qualifier you back is what breaks the bank.

[Street cry]

All i was saying was that worse case scenario could mean you miss a winner and catch a bank breaking run . It could also mean that you miss losers and could be favourable to the bank.
All i recommend is that if you are gonna miss a day that you know about for example you are at hospital next wednesday you stop betting on a winner , this in itself can not be guaranteed but a bit of sense needs to be applied .
For example in the circumstance above you may find that half way through monday you had a winner then that would be a sensible stop point to restart thursday on a new run.
Just my opinion and what i would do to avoid the worst case scenario although probably missing the odd point.

[Street cry]

keith was just thinking say if i add a few grand to this bank to play it bigger does it act in the same way as added profit? The risk meter is lowered on deposit so i assume that percentage wise the risk will be less than restarting the process with the larger amount thanks sc

[Win2Win]

Additional money acts as profit, but the more profit although the BB goes up, it goes up slower :doh .....yes....that's it.....:doh

A few grand...best splitting it software/seperate bank.

[Street cry]

cheers keith but i have enough rsb stuff in conventional banks i just like the dimension of the new bank high with every winner and most of the selections i have covered in other systems anyway cheers sc

[tophatter]

You did not cause offence Ian, my post was me just trying to dish out a bit of tough love because I can see you showing signs of distress and its best to try and help you early on.

Forget about trying to predict the future at this early stage and just do what the software tells you to do. The whole idea of it is to try and negate the trauma the rules of strike rate can inflict on your bank during the below average runs and that is all I was saying. Of course on the flip side of the coin that means you will be winning a little less than you would using level stakes on an above average run, that is why I was saying you should not worry about short terrm strike rate.

Let me give you an example using live data. Before Hadami won today I was on a losing run of 5. It won at 0.90 meaning I had a strike rate over that small period of time of 16.67%. If i had been staking a 1% level stake of my starting bank on those selections I would have seen my bank fall 4.1%
Using the staking advised by the software It actually rose by a small amount.

Its taking the sting out of the downside of strike rates by asking you to stake smaller amounts on the horses less likely win than you would do using level stakes. That means you wont see dramatic rises like you do using level stakes but equally you should have a more stable bank. And one plus point too is that the inital step of a bet has a level stake attatched to it, so when you get a run of winners, which again strike rate dictates must happen, you in effect get a bonus.

I started with a £500 bank and it now stands at £607.38. Using a 1% level stake of the starting bank it would now be £580.10 as my level stake profit is showing as 16.02 points. And using the staking the biggest drop in my bank has been less than 3% but i have never gone longer than having to place 7 bets to get that back. Anyone who uses level stakes will tell you that you can go 50 or 60 or more bets before you record a new bank high. You can get big rises of 10 or 20 points though using level stakes but it is more important you do not miss a run of winning bets. This system and staking negates all that kind of pressure and although you might get a little shorterm discomfort it is nowhere near the pressure you can get staking to a higher initial percentage at level stakes on a system.

You just have to accept that gambling means you lose as often (and usually more often) as you win. The key is to make sure the winning bets net you more than the losing bets.

[alfazzr1100]

Today was obviously a good day with 4 winners out of 8 runners. It was also as close as I have got to following the software being a Saturday. I have got the gist of the staking plan now (well the trend anyway) and have had a good day increasing the bank by 40%. Would have been more if I had put the recommended 58% of my bank on Hammadi but as it was I could only stretch to £15 - still not bad and I also had a glitch in Betfair where it was telling me I had not placed the bet on Tamagin then it went through twice(if only it had happened on one of the winners!). Bank now back to 68% of starting bank.

[tophatter]

Im suprised you have got to the stage saying to place 58% of your bank on a bet. Ive been nowhere near that. I think the biggest I have got to is about 7%.

I really do think you should do these with a bookmakers account (if you are not already doing so) so you can place bets under £2.00 and start again with a small bank - no more than £500 until you have used it for three months.

Maybe I have been lucky and have missed lots of short priced losers you have been getting but I suspect not as I dont believe in luck when placing 179 bets over a two month period.

Dont do anything else other than following the software strictky and that means no side banks, no "what if" scenarios and no placing bigger bets than advised. Better to make a smaller profit, than a bigger loss!

If you need anyone for inspiration then look at Scaaty. Its a shame she dont post more often because in my opinion she is the example all people follwoing these systems should look to.

[tophatter]

4 winners from 8. Bank up on the day by 1.31%

Strike rate is 39% from 179 bets with a profit of 21.48%

[Win2Win]

Today was obviously a good day with 4 winners out of 8 runners. It was also as close as I have got to following the software being a Saturday. I have got the gist of the staking plan now (well the trend anyway) and have had a good day increasing the bank by 40%. Would have been more if I had put the recommended 58% of my bank on Hammadi but as it was I could only stretch to £15 - still not bad and I also had a glitch in Betfair where it was telling me I had not placed the bet on Tamagin then it went through twice(if only it had happened on one of the winners!). Bank now back to 68% of starting bank.

None of that adds up if you are using the software correctly. If you are just messing about, as it appears to most her, forget it, it is not for you.

[alfazzr1100]

I have explained my earlier problems with the software (using the actual Betafir stakes rather than minus 1) and not always being able to wait for one race to finish before doing the next. Obviously the increased early losses led to some large bets being suggested on low odds selelctions. I followed it closely today except for the £35 recommendation on Hammadi (I opted for £15) and the accidental double stake on Tamagin.

I have been back to square one ans reentered all the sellections as if I had enetered the correct stakes and I would now be up 3% on the start, but that would have meant staking a recomended £134.50 (or 142% of the bank on Grand Heights), £55.54 on Pinkindie (63% bank) and £28.84 (37%) on Hammadi (It was £35 when I first looked but the odds changed later.)

I guess you guys have never been unlucky enough to start the system off in a low patch. However, I am hoping now for a period of consolidation. I am intending to open a Bet365 account to allow lower stakes (is there a minimum online ?).

One query I have with the software is that in order to understand the staking plan I started a clean run from scratch (no history file) with a bank of £100 and started entering runners sequentially numbered 1,2,3 etc (to avoid excessinve typing) all with odds of 3 and all losers. When the bank had fallen to around £87 after about 13 entries, it recomended a stake of £4.32 but said the bank was broke and needed topping up. Seemed strange with £87 in there ?

Ian

[tophatter]

When I started Ian, I had 2 winners from my first 10 bets, so it was not a case that I had a blistering start.

I dont think bet365 have a bet minimum, I know I have staked way under a pound though. Kered is not about these days so I cant answer if it lets you stake a penny or tuppence :)

I reckon you should just wipe it all clean and start again with the bet 365 account you are opening.

[Win2Win]

I followed it closely today except for the £35 recommendation on Hammadi (I opted for £15) and the accidental double stake on Tamagin.

That is not following it closely Ian. Two mistakes out of a handful of bets. If you cannot cover the stake, your bank is set way above what you can afford to lose, so you will lose all of the bank in the end, guaranteed.

This is not some magic risk free system software, as with everything in gambling, if you do not do it correctly, you lose like the other 99.3%. I just make things as easy & risk free as possible for punters, but if you do not follow the rules, you may as well use a pin.

Their is NEVER a low patch :doh You are using a bank already lost, as with any betting bank. If you do not trust what it is telling you to do, then as I said earlier, do not do it, use a staking plan you are happy with, like levels.

If you can't put £134 on a horse as it tells you...BYE BYE 100% of the bank in the long term, you may as well flush it down the loo now. Besides, if you don't know what you are doing, and do not trust it, can't afford it, why are you using such a large starting bank. You should be on £100-£200, using a bookie.

Only 3 weeks ago we had a run of 14 losers, what would you have done then, with around 95% of the bank out? Bottled it? Bank gone, lost, history......

The software works fine, 100's use it every day with no problems, it does exactly what it says on the tin.


but said the bank was broke and needed topping up. Seemed strange with £87 in there ?

That would be correct. 13 losers at that price would break the bank, and you either give up, add money, or start again. But look through the history and find 13, 3/1 winners in a row :doh When you first start the softwar can handle a losing run of 14-16, as you profit, that grows as the Risk Meter drops, meaning you can handle longer runs, although history suggests this will not happen, but statistically could.

[scaaty]

If you need anyone for inspiration then look at Scaaty. Its a shame she dont post more often because in my opinion she is the example all people follwoing these systems should look to.



Blimey, I've never been a role model before! :ooo Thanks TH, I appreciate the compliment :)
But if I am a good example of how to follow the systems, it's 100% due to everything I've learned on this site from Keith, you and all the other regulars. Before I found this forum I had very little idea about systems and no idea at all about staking, losing runs, betting banks etc ...still got loads to learn and I don't post very much because I know so little! Following the systems is easy - Keith's done all the hard work and all I do is follow the instructions. Though thinking about it, I suppose it's only easy because I've read and taken on board all the advice here, it's a lot easier to follow instructions if you understand why you're doing what you're doing. I know to expect losing runs and I know they don't mean the system isn't working. The most important thing I've learnt is patience - 90% of the time it's a waiting game, you can spend weeks or months standing still or even going backwards but if you just keep plugging away it'll turn round eventually. For example, my RFP bank has dropped almost 24% in the last three weeks, during the last year it's dropped as much as 60% at times .... in the past I'd have abandoned it after just one of those losing runs, and I'd have been convinced that the system was rubbish. As it is I've persevered and even after this month's drop my bank is over 400% up since I started.

The System Banker software is different and the longer I use it the more I appreciate how clever it is. It doesn't take weeks or months to recover from a losing run, as Tophatter says every winner means a new bank high, and although the increases might seem small it's great to see the bank growing slowly and steadily. :thumbs

[tophatter]

23/09/07

1 winners from 5. Bank down on the day by 0.63%

Strike rate is 39% from 184 bets with a profit of 20.71%

[Street cry]

went to see my dad today and so missed the first one i did dev and then missed the rest so for me good day, am just playing with this at themo with a 1k bank but will be doing it bigger soon hopefully

[alfazzr1100]

Yes Scaaty, I agree with TopHatter, you're and example to all (especially new starters). I'll just keep trying.
Ian

[alfazzr1100]

Keith, I'm smarting slightly from your comments and I wasn't going to reply but I will just put the record straight. I admit I've made some mistakes in the first two weeks of using System Banker but I'd rather do that and learn from them than carry on in blissful ignorance only to find out later when it may be too late.

Using the system properly, with a starting bank of £100 and using the Exchange my bank was bust after 31 bets. As I had put aside £100 to try the system out (after a week of succesfull paper testing a couple of weeks ago) so putting on a bet of £134 on one horse could not be considered responsible gambling - so I (and many others here so I'm not alone, decided to miss that bet as you can read above) I backed it with a more reasonable stake and won a little (better than no win at all) - similarly with Hammadi.

As for my error with betfair, although I could have sworn I had backed the selection with two minutes to go to the off I was looking at a screen saying I hadn't (so I did) only when it lost did I see I had lost two stakes.

Also, and you can back test it if you wish (whether a run of 14 losers at 4/1 is realistic or not does not matter) I can't see why it tells you the bank is broke with £87 left and a recommended stake of £4.32 (when earlier a £134 stake with a £100 ish bank goes unmentioned).

Anyway, with that off my chest, I now know a lot more, my main mistake as TopHatter points out was using a small starting bank the Exchange setting. I should have opened a Bookmaker account and had lower losses and the software would have staked £18 on Grand Heights not £134 caused solely by a combination of very low odds horse after a run of 5 losers.

So, I will carry on with it, older (2 weeks) and much wiser about many issues (one of which is how to get 10% better odds but I'll share that thought on another thread another time perhaps), and start again with it with a bookmaker account as soon as possible.

I really appreciate yours and others comments and I hope I am learning from them all - I'd rather TopHatters "tough love" an' all, than no comments at all. I probably would have dropped it by now if I could not understand all that has been happening.

Thanks and goodnight, Ian

[Win2Win]

so putting on a bet of £134 on one horse could not be considered responsible gambling
You do not understand what the experienced here are telling you, the bank is already lost, as with any bank before you even place one bet. I am talking about the way you have used the software AFTER you have admitted making mistakes, not just one horse.


I can't see why it tells you the bank is broke with £87 left and a recommended stake of £4.32
Because that is all the bank will allow you to bet unless you add more money, or reset, hence the warning.

Their is no easy way to money in this game, you have to decide if you want to accept all the risks involved in what you decide to do, if not, you do not do it and use another method/system/plan, or move on.

[Street cry]

Another thing Ian is you used the exchanges with a £100 bank when the advice clearly states that you need a bigger bank than that to use exchanges and the minimum for them the £2 bet.
With a £100 pound bank you should start with approximately a 14 pence bet you will on the exchanges have been using a starting bet of £2 so you were putting on 14.28 times more than you should have been that is why it bust.
Even if you start with a grand bank you are over staking in the beginning if you use the exchanges.
This system is a simple process which runs on basic principles the main one being every winner gives anew bank high.
Obviously you will be investing heavily at times but every high point gives you added security as the percentage risk is lessening all the time as the base bet is a lower percentage of the bank as you go along.
Basically eventually you will be able to handle twice the amount of losers whilst still enjoying regular bank highs.
Where it goes wrong is when the rules are questioned and not adhered to.
Not having a go just want you to do well at it and by not following the rules you wont make it work all the best SC

[Street cry]

Hi guys just a quick one, on the list today traprain 3.40 and bustan 3.15 are in the wrong order if you are working your way down the list be aware as could be costly if u miss bustan and it wins cheers SC

[Win2Win]

I'm writing software to limit these mistakes, or at least correct them quickly. Should be active in 1 -2 weeks.

[Street cry]

wasn't criticising i just remember mathare i think saying he wrote a time down wrong once and it cost him and dint want anyone to miss out

[mathare]

wasn't criticising i just remember mathare i think saying he wrote a time down wrong once and it cost him and dint want anyone to miss outAye, fair enough. My spreadsheet sorts all my bets when I put them in anyway and I record all the selections before racing starts and just fill in the stakes and odds when the bets are struck

[Mavrick]

Over slept today and missed the first loser. That's about as good as it's got for me lately with my bets:D

[Mavrick]

I know it's early days, but my level stakes bank is taking quite a hammering on these.

[Win2Win]

Mine is nicely up :) And 3 good winners today.

[Mavrick]

Mine is nicely up :) And 3 good winners today.

I made it only one Keith. Are you using other selections with it.

[Street cry]

i stoppped after the first one today as i am not available tomorrow have made good gains thus far 8% increase in bank in 3 weeks good going plus i have missed a load of em

[Mavrick]

I know a lot of them are backed in like mad before they are posted, but my bank is down 28 percent over the same period. Are you guys using members bets with them as well that I do not have access to. I am not moaning, honestly as I can stomach bad runs, just a little confused with Keiths previous post.

[Win2Win]

Ah well, severe migraine today, I forgot to include page 2 on the Members page :rolleyes: Back to bed.....been there all day :mad:

[Mavrick]

Sorry to hear that Keith. Migraines are a bitch. I suffered from them when i was a kid, but grew out of them. I am glad i am not going mad.

[tophatter]

29/09/07

1 winner from 3. bank up 0.65% on the day

39% strike rate from 115 bets. Profit = 21.50%

[scaaty]

I know a lot of them are backed in like mad before they are posted, but my bank is down 28 percent over the same period.

I'm not using a levels bank, but according to my stats page the 'if levels' figure is -15.34pts. I started on 4th September and I've missed two bets, one was Grand Heights and I missed one loser when I was out last night. I assume that 1pt = 1%, so not sure how you're as much as 28% down - I've looked back on the thread and I think you started your levels bank about the same time as I started using the software. All I can think is that quite a few of the bookies prices must have been better than Betfair's - I know some of them have been, I've been pleasantly surprised how often I've done better than the BF price just before the off. Once I've settled one bet I check the prices on the next, if its shortening on BF and the bookies price is as good or better I take it then and don't wait till near the off, if it looks like it might drift a bit I wait. Anyway as you say it's early days yet, hopefully it'll turn round for you soon !

[Mavrick]

Cheers Scaaty. I'm probably confusing things by saying level stakes, it's a fixed percentage (2.5%). I was just trying to differentiate it from the software. I know I have lost out to SP a few times, but I don't think on average I'm betting below it. Nevermind.

[Win2Win]

It's around 35pts up this year to levels, which is below the norm, but as with most things this year, that is our wonderful weather. I think I'll move to Japan in Fiji, looked much nicer during the Grand Prix :rolleyes:

Much better today :thumbs , and if I can get this script I'm writing finished this week, it means I only have one page to update, rather than the 12 or so I have to do manually every day, that should limit mistakes further, as I will then have more time to check. :happyboun

[tophatter]

30/09/07
Just the one winner today from 5 bets, but as it was the last bet I placed it means the bank increases on the day by 0.77% and also a new high for the bank.

I now have a 38% strike rate from 192 bets and a profit of 22.43%

Started the month with the profit standing at 11.28% and since then I have struck 75 bets with 27 winners at a strike rate of 36%.

[Street cry]

yep a good day and indeed a new bank high good stuff

[Street cry]

Losing run ended today with nice winner and new bank high.
I started on the 9th september with a small bank of £1000 and since then have achieved the following results. Please bare in mind i dont do em on sundays so i leave myself ina winning position on either friday or usually saturday. I did one sunday which was last weekend.
BETS 91
WINS 32
STRIKE 35%
POI 16%
BANK GROWTH 9.1%

I am gonna restart this soon with a 5 grand bank hopefully before christmas , very good results considering strike is down 5% of long term figures

[mickmd]

Wow no bets today thats a first for me my bank is up £190 o a £1000 starting bank.keep up the good work guys:thumbs

[Win2Win]

First for me as well....in fact harldy anything today, apart from the lays :doh

[fgould]

hi i have just downloaded the software any clues how to run it bit muffed by it

cheers frank:helper

[mathare]

hi i have just downloaded the software any clues how to run it bit muffed by it

cheers frank:helperThere are no selections today Frank so no unlock code. Wait till tomorrow and all will become clear, but in the meantime read the Tips tab in the software, the System Banker website and review the past results of the system to make sure you know what to expect

[fgould]

cheers frank
so there are selections to back when selected by the software

cheers frank:)

[mathare]

so there are selections to back when selected by the softwareThe update page will show the selections (normally 3-5 a day) but today there are none. Then it's just a case of following the instructions on the system banker webpage and in the software and letting it handle the staking for you.

[Win2Win]

The UNLOCK code works today, so you can play with it till midnight with any data you choose. Click the Help for help!

[fgould]

hi again
does the unlock code change each day as im on a weeks free trial

cheers frank ps do i need a new one each day and if so how do i get it:)

[fgould]

hi
ive input the unlock code and entered my bank now were do i get the selections from to input plesae

frank:)

[scaaty]

Today's selections aren't up yet - they'll be there, along with a new unlock code for today, sometime between now and 12.30

[fgould]

geeeeeez this is hard work were do i get the todays unlock code my old one thursday ****** does not work today im on a free trial

frank

[Street cry]

Thought i would just do an update on my stats as chatter on the system banker has been quiet of late
Totals bet win Strike Stake P&L POI
121 42 35% 804 121 15%
The above is only 5 weeks returns from a 1000 bank and i have missed a good few bets however a good few of them would have been losers so thats why my poi is quite healthy.
I have decided to add a grand a month to the bank as oppose to a big lump at once will update regularly SC

[tophatter]

Im still cracking away at it but cant really do them in the week much because of work. I always only intended to post my results through Septemeber as there were as few people asking what was other people thoughts on the software.

Bank hit another high yesterday and my view remains exactly the same as it was when I posted last month which is this. As long as believe in what you are doing and keep your nerve then this is an excellent way of betting on a system with a good strike rate and turnover.

[mathare]

I may as well add my stats, correct as of end of 15/10/07...
Bets: 265
Wins: 105
Lost: 160
Overall SR: 40%
Recent SR: 30.77%
Current P/L: 63.42
F/c P/L Month: 5.28
If Levels: -2.3 points
Risk Meter: 12
Av Odds: 3.11
Losing Run: 16/0

[tophatter]

I was thinking about you yesterday Matt coz I knew you missed the winner on Saturday which left you on quite a long losing run.

Nice to see you kept your nerve and did not think the world was against you. I know you well enough to know you had no worries on that score anyhow.

Was pleased when Fringe won yesterday though for you.

[mathare]

I was thinking about you yesterday Matt coz I knew you missed the winner on Saturday which left you on quite a long losing run. Was pleased when Fringe won yesterday though for you.Cheers TH. Shame I went out yesterday afternoon and missed Fringe though eh? :laugh

But today's did the business and with my stakes calculated on the early price of 9/4 but settled at 3/1 I actually got a nice bonus of around a fiver out of it too, which from a starting bank of £200 is handy.

[scaaty]

Still very much enjoying this software. :thumbs

Here are my stats so far, started September 4th, missed last Friday and Saturday and a couple of bets on other days. One thing I do find a bit confusing is that if you add to the bank, it adds that amount to your profit figure - I added £20 yesterday so it's showing my profit as £58.55 when I know it's actually £38.55.

Bets 184
Wins 64
lost 120
SR 35%
Recent SR 42.31%
P/L +38.55
F/c P/L Month 4.8 ......I don't understand what this figure is ?
If Levels -25.8pts
Risk Meter 12
Av Odds 3.16
Losing Run 16/0

[mathare]

F/c P/L Month 4.8 ......I don't understand what this figure is ?Divide your profit in the software by 12 and you get damn close so I'm guessing it's profit averaged out over 12 months

[scaaty]

Cheers Mat, that makes sense .... can't see why it's called F/c P/L though, it's never going to be a forecast, is it ?

[Win2Win]

The idea of 'adding' extra money Scaaty is to improve the stakes, so it counts it as profit. If you added it to the base bank, it would not improve stakes, so in effect, be meaningless to add. :)

I could always 'adjust' the P/L figure with money added in a future version if enough call for it.

[scaaty]

:splapme Of course - it's so obvious now you've explained it !

It's easy enough to keep a note of money added anyway so not really a problem. :)

[Mavrick]

I was just interested to see how people have been doing on these to a fixed % over the last month. I must admit that I stopped following these about 5 weeks ago because alot of the selections I was already backing on other systems and I had to take much shorter prices as a lot of them had been backed in before I viewed the update page and it felt strange having to take shorter odds after fighting it out for better odds the night before.

I stopped using the software at about the same time. It had been profitable for me, but I found that I wasn't a big fan of the staking. I don't want to put people off it though as I think it's a great idea. Just not my cup of tea.

[MattR]

Mav, I've been running it since 21st August using 3% of a starting bank of £200. My bank high was £300.07 and lowest has been £55.11, it's since then been making a slow but steady recovery and is currently at £100.93.

[Mavrick]

Thanks for that MattR.

[MattR]

Just an update for you Mav.

Bank now stands at £140.27, so £40 more on the road to recovery (starting bank 200) since the last post and almost a £100 up from it's low point. The good point with the recovery is of course the stake also comes back up with it, so the early recovery had stakes in the £2's. It's now back in the £4's.

[Mavrick]

Thanks for the update MattR, I didn't want to annoy people by keep asking how it was doing:D

Maybe I bailed out a bit too soon. I hope the recovery carries on for you and anyone else running it.:)

[Street cry]

Anyone else still doing these or just me ???, still going well with slow and steady gains :thumbs

[mathare]

I still do it but I don't update on it very often. It's a very good bit of software showing steady gains

[Street cry]

Certainly is although there are some hefty bets on losing runs the end product of a new bank high is well worth it.
What sort of monthly gains have you seen math ie 10% 20% i have had about 20% on avge but have missed a good few selections be interesting to see how others are faring

[mathare]

My bank is up around 40% in 3 months, more or less.

[scaaty]

I started on September 3rd and I've been adding to the bank at intervals so it's difficult to work out a percentage - well it is for me anyway ! But there's been a nice steady increase in profit .... started with a £250 bank, altogether I've added £168, bank now is £523.52 .... so total profit of £105.52. I haven't done all the bets ( sometimes life intervenes ! ) and I seem to have a talent for missing the nice high priced ones, I missed Ballybeg Glen, 9/1 I think it was if I remember right, ;fire and a couple of others. Can get a bit scary, my highest stake so far has been around a quarter of my bank on Petit Lord, and for me that was a BIG bet, but the longer I do it the more I have confidence in it, and as the bank grows the profit grows - first week my profit was around £7,over the last couple of weeks it's been £20+ per week. :) :thumbs

[Street cry]

well played scatty good stuff

[tophatter]

I still use it but like Mat dont report on a daily basis. I did in September but that was a pledge I made at the beginning of the month because a couple of people wanted to see how it was working and so I gave them some live anecdotal data.

I would recommend it to anyone but tell them they have to follow the rules, not get impatient with what seem like very small bets and start with a bank they are can afford to lose.

[Win2Win]

The results for the two banker qualifiers are now on the Win2Win result pages, and both nicely in profit, unlike other services that supply unprofitable horse selections, and a calculator instead of reverse engineered software.

[eruptive plot]

having had this software for a week and a half now,i was wondering how the risk meter worked.when i first had it it was set to 12,and now that i am up 10% it is now on 11.
got to say i am more than happy with it so far,i had a few bets that i didnt feel totally comfortable with especially the 4/11 shot that got beat the other day,but the software got it back.
when i started the program i put £200 into the bank and then added another £50.my bank now stands at £274

[scaaty]

Well I guess my luck had to run out sometime! Horrendous losing run over the last couple of days, and I caught every one of them ! :yikes: Well, almost all anyway, I chickened out when the bet got bigger than the remaining bank. Just as well because the losing run is up to 19 now I think .....very glad that I took out my original bank last week so I haven't actually lost anything. I enjoy doing these and hopefully another losing run like this won't happen again for a while, so I've reset the software and I'm going to restart today using what I've got left topped up from the original bank, and again withdraw the original bank when (or if ! ) it doubles.

[Street cry]

hi scatty were there winners that you missed or was that a solid losing run

[Win2Win]

16 was the losing run which happens 1-4 times a year. Software is built to handle 16/17 for beginners, and more with the profit you have.

[scaaty]

hi scatty were there winners that you missed or was that a solid losing run

Sorry, I should have made that clear - yes I did miss winners. I just tried to look at the history files to get the numbers right, but they don't seem to be there .... strange, the old ones, before I took out the original bank and reset, are there, and a new one after I reset today, but nothing in between ... I'm sure I've been clicking the backup button at the end of each day :doh
As far as I remember I missed two winners just before the losing run of 16 and one earlier so I was on a losing run of 4 before the 16. What's really annoying is that if I'd stuck to what I was doing and waited after missing the winners until the system had a run of 4 losers to match mine, I'd have been ok ! But I decided to throw caution to the winds .... oh well, lesson learnt ! Started again today with a £200 bank so it's onwards and upwards :thumbs

[scaaty]

Second bank has now bitten the dust ;fire .... I missed Jaunty Flight on Thursday when a phone call took longer than I was expecting, so after High Jack lost yesterday I had just £46.41 left in the bank and would have had to stake £178 on First Love .... decided I couldn't add that much to the bank, which was just as well because it lost. It took a losing run of just 13 to bust the bank this time and I've reluctantly decided to drop the system - seems fine if you can guarantee not to miss any bets but just too risky when you can't. So I'm going to take my remaining £46.41 and run - I think I'll probably invest in one of the laying systems instead, NHPM seems to be going well so maybe that one.

[mathare]

NHPM seems to be going well so maybe that one.It's on fire so far this year Scaaty - a very wise investment

[juwelkeeper]

Just trying to get my head around this ,you state that every winner will increase the bank ,i tried this out yesterday using a £100 bank , first 5 lost so bank obviously down but when entering the odds for the next horse if i win the bank is still below my £100 pound starting bank. My question is do i deduct 1 point when entering bookmakers prices because if i had i would have been in profit ,but i am sure i read that if using bookmakers odds you enter it exactly as it says on the bookmakers site so IE if it is 2.37 you enter 2.37 but doing this would have still left me down when i thought every winner will increase your bank.

[Win2Win]

If you do it correctly you'd be up. You deduct 1 from Betfair prices as per the instructions.

New version with Safety On/Off after Cheltenham.

[juwelkeeper]

Just realized where i was going wrong i was just looking at the winnings from the bookies web site when entering the stake and not including my stake money back back :splapme.

[Win2Win]

I've never bust a bank on it, nor has the wife :yikes: ....and she's as lucky as Vegy :ooo

Still, I'll be making it even more robust for the next version. Minimise risk as much as possible, but you can't erradicate it altogether when gambling.

[jasonpariah]

I was curious after looking at the Exel sheet for this software.Many people state in this thread how,when starting with a smaller bank(£1000 or less),that thier stake is under the £2 range.Yet however in the Exel sheet it clearly shows a first off bet of £6 from a £200 bank.Can someone explain please.

[Win2Win]

The Excel sheet is based on using the selections with a straight 3% stake, and not using the software which uses a different staking plan. :)

[jasonpariah]

Ah! Light dawns on marble head........

Cheers.

[jonahjones]

If you don't mind me asking, how is everyone getting on with this as things stand?

Just looking at the thread for the first time and I note that many of you will have been involved for 18 months+ now and I am curious. :)

Many thanks.