On The Bubble

[Mug OUFC]

Tell me I did the right thing here. I think I did, but i just need to check

After 6 hours of play, 6 players left in a live casino tournament which started with 40 entrants.

Prize pool is 2.5k paying 5 places.

So we are on the bubble with significant prize money for 5th place.

I have had absolutely no cards to play with on the final table and this has seen my chip stack drop worryingly

Blinds are 1600/800

Mug OUFC is small blind and has 3800 left after small blind.

Big blind is chip leader with ~30k of chips, a loose aggressive player who has already called two all ins with superior hands and missed the flop.

Everybody folds to me

I hold A9x

What do you do?

[mathare]

I have had absolutely no cards to play with on the final table and this has seen my chip stack drop worryingly
This has alarm bells ringing in my head immediately, before we even get to the details of the hand.


Blinds are 1600/800

Mug OUFC is small blind and has 3800 left after small blind.You had less than 3xBB going in to this hand which says to me that either you have been unlucky and lost some hands in the last orbit of the button or you're not stealing enough. 3xBB is a SHORT stack as it's only really the standard raise and that isn't going to scare many/any off the hand at this stage. With 8-10xBB left you need to start pushbotting to a degree. You have two moves: all-in or fold. There is no call, no raise part of your stack, just all-in or fold. Playing that way means you should get into situations like this with a stack of around 3xBB far less frequently. But anyway, that's where we are...


Big blind is chip leader with ~30k of chips, a loose aggressive player who has already called two all ins with superior hands and missed the flop.

Everybody folds to me

I hold A9x

What do you do?The type of player the BB is here is irrelevant for me. I simply don't care in this situation. I am going to assume, since you don't say, that you're the shortest stack at the table and were you to fold here there is no chance of another shorter stack getting blinded away before the blinds reach you again. You're heads up and have an Ace. If you fold you're out. If you do fold I have no idea what sort of hand you're waiting for because you have so little fold equity. If you call the BB should put you all-in anyway and then you either fold (and have fewer chips now than had you folded earlier) or call and see a flop. But if you push all-in pre-flop there is a slim chance that the BB folds and you win the blinds to increase your stack - and now the blinds are significant in relation to your stack. If he calls you're in good shape anyway with that hand I'd say so you could easily double-up. You're nearly 60% to win against random cards with that hand so you have to push given your stack size.

[Mug OUFC]

You are of course correct, I shouldn't have let my stack get as low as it did.

On the final table i started with 11k which was slightly above average. But with blinds at 1200/600 and quickly up to 1600/800 i found myself blinded down to a shortstack before i could get comfy in my seat. Others were quickly shortstacked also - 4 players went out in about 20 minutes and most hands saw an all-in pre flop. I understand I needed to make a move sooner but its very difficult to shove with 9-2 (this was literally the crap i was being dealt) and even harder to call a raise/all-in with it

What sort of minimum hand requirements would you be looking at to steal with here (especially with regard to position). And what sort of hands can you call an all in or raise in this situation?

It was also my first live tournament and 150 notes is a lot of money to me. I guess my mindset is I that, under pressure, would rather go out with a shortstacked A9 than i would trying to steal with 92?

I rarely bluff anyway as Im just not good enough, it almost always gets me in trouble. I have to play to my strengths and that is to play tight. Semi bluff yes, bluffing with trash no.

[mathare]

On the final table i started with 11k which was slightly above average. But with blinds at 1200/600 and quickly up to 1600/800 i found myself blinded down to a shortstack before i could get comfy in my seat. Others were quickly shortstacked also - 4 players went out in about 20 minutes and most hands saw an all-in pre flop. I understand I needed to make a move sooner but its very difficult to shove with 9-2 (this was literally the crap i was being dealt) and even harder to call a raise/all-in with itWas it literally just blinds grinding away at your stack to reduce it over this time? Calling in situations where no-one really has a big stack and the average is 10-12xBB is a big no-no. There is no real opportunity for skill and fancy play here. It's all-in or fold territory. You need to consider your stack size and that of your opponents. If a standard raise from you will pot-commit you then shove it all in. If calling the same raise from you would pot-commit an opponent then he should be shoving all-in rather than calling so you should shove all-in first rather than make the standard raise. As you recognise it is harder to call an all-in that to be the one making the all-in raise.


What sort of minimum hand requirements would you be looking at to steal with here (especially with regard to position). And what sort of hands can you call an all in or raise in this situation?My cards are probably 3rd on the list of things I am thinking about in these situations. Stack sizes, position, table image and action before me are all important, many of them more so than the cards I hold. If it is folded round to me in late position and I hold 9-2 and I still have a decent stack (giving me fold equity) then I may well stick it all-in. You have to steal those blinds. You started with 11k on the final table and there is 1800-2400 in the middle waiting to be claimed. That's around 20% of your stack sat in the middle waiting to be grabbed. You only have 6-7xBB so you're already in all-in/fold territory and that's with an above average stack. Are the blinds looking to just make the money or win? If they are trying to creep in to the money then steal from them like there is no tomorrow and punish them.


It was also my first live tournament and 150 notes is a lot of money to me. I guess my mindset is I that, under pressure, would rather go out with a shortstacked A9 than i would trying to steal with 92? I can understand that and in the situation I may have done the same. But what I am telling you know is the textbook way to play these situations. Better to go out in a blaze of glory by pushing a middle-stack all-in with junk and getting caught than to get blinded away to almost nothing before making your stand. Apparently.


I rarely bluff anyway as Im just not good enough, it almost always gets me in trouble. I have to play to my strengths and that is to play tight. Semi bluff yes, bluffing with trash no.I think you can open your bluffing range up a bit. A good raise from a decent stack in late position when the blinds are large is going to look like a steal. And it is a steal. But what have the blinds got that they can play back at you with? What if it is not a steal? Make the raise from one off the button and it looks less like a steal attempt. Go in from early position short-handed and it looks strong and hardly like a steal at all. OK, you run the risk of running into a genuine hand but you have to make a stand and not be afraid to bust out on junk or get caught bluffing and stealing. It will pay off over time

[vegyjones]

Mat, can I describe a situation and ask you to let me know what you would do in such situation.

Wait for an answer I wil not, and proceed to ask :D

You're in a tournament which pays 9 places there are 10 left, 5 on each pre-final table.

You're to the left of the small blind. You have a medium sixed stack, The BB and SB have minimal stacks but the player to your left has a whopping big stack!

You fancy getting rid of the SB and BB with a hand of Q10s.

However, if you raise enough to put the BB and SB all-in, and big stack man raises that, it would effectively committ you to all-in.

So do you raise in the hope that Big Stack folds, or leave it until you get a better hand?

[Mug OUFC]

Great stuff mat thank you


Was it literally just blinds grinding away at your stack to reduce it over this time?

Yeah


Better to go out in a blaze of glory by pushing a middle-stack all-in with junk and getting caught than to get blinded away to almost nothing before making your stand. Apparently.

:laugh I love the apparently :laugh


Go in from early position short-handed and it looks strong and hardly like a steal at all. OK, you run the risk of running into a genuine hand but you have to make a stand and not be afraid to bust out on junk or get caught bluffing and stealing. It will pay off over time

What your saying is, I wont start winning until I grow some balls :thumbs

For the record the BB had A10 leaving me out on the bubble AGAIN :headbange

[mathare]

What your saying is, I wont start winning until I grow some balls :thumbsPretty much, yeah :laugh


For the record the BB had A10 leaving me out on the bubble AGAIN :headbangeThat is harsh. But looking back, regardless of what I have said, do you feel you made the right move?

Poker is about making the right decisions. Keep doing that and the money and results will come.

[mathare]

You're in a tournament which pays 9 places there are 10 left, 5 on each pre-final table.So you're either in a six-max tourney or a site that seats 9 to a table rather than what I regard as the standard, 10. OK.


You're to the left of the small blind. You have a medium sixed stack, The BB and SB have minimal stacks but the player to your left has a whopping big stack!You're to the left of the SB making you the BB. So you have a medium-sized and minimal stack :doh


You fancy getting rid of the SB and BB with a hand of Q10s.Good luck. If you have a medium stack and the blinds are short-stacked with money on the table they should be shoving all-in.


However, if you raise enough to put the BB and SB all-in, and big stack man raises that, it would effectively committ you to all-in.

So do you raise in the hope that Big Stack folds, or leave it until you get a better hand?I'm going to assume left is right here so you're on the button and the chip leader is to your right, in the cut-off. So he acts first.

No, I'm lost now. Has the big stack raised or not? Have I raised with QTs? Would I raise all-in with QTs? It's a decent hand and I would raise rather than call with it, that's for sure. What's my read on the other players? Is the big stack tight or loose, aggressive or passive? What's my stack like compared to the average stack at this table and in the tourney? Folded round to me then I would be all-in without a doubt. Would I call an all-in on the bubble with QTs - probably not unless I had to and my stack size says I don't have to. But what are the blinds in terms of % of my stack?

[Mug OUFC]

I had assumed he meant he was left of BB mat (1st position)

I would be all in with this if i was first to act on a shorthanded table in the hope of scaring off anyone with marginal hands not in the blinds. Then Ill take my chances with the blinds who should be shoving regardless of hand strength.

Of course saying this is the right thing to do, and actually doing it with the pressure on, are two different things. As previously discussed.

[vegyjones]

Yes, that's right your in first position after the blinds, acting before big stack over there!

[mathare]

I had assumed he meant he was left of BB mat (1st position)Oh, could be, yeah. That would make sense. So you wake up with QTs with a decent stack but a bigger stack stands between you and the blinds. Do you want a caller? If you push all-in then one of the blinds will probably push too. Against one random hand it's roughly 60/40 in your favour and neither of the blinds can bust you so I would go all-in if the blinds were worth stealing, hoping the bigger stack hasn't got a monster he wants to get messy with pre-flop.


I would be all in with this if i was first to act on a shorthanded table in the hope of scaring off anyone with marginal hands not in the blinds. Then Ill take my chances with the blinds who should be shoving regardless of hand strength.:thumbs


Of course saying this is the right thing to do, and actually doing it with the pressure on, are two different things. As previously discussed.Absolutely. But if the blinds are big then you're basically into the same strategy as the end stages of a SnG tourney and that's easily practiced really.

[Mug OUFC]

I had assumed he meant he was left of BB mat (1st position)

I would be all in with this if i was first to act on a shorthanded table in the hope of scaring off anyone with marginal hands not in the blinds. Then Ill take my chances with the blinds who should be shoving regardless of hand strength.

Of course saying this is the right thing to do, and actually doing it with the pressure on, are two different things. As previously discussed.

I would caveat that this strategy would be based on the fact that i had built a table image of a very tight player who doesnt enter pots unless he has a hand. My all-in would then be respected, especially from an early position with first in 'vigorish' :D

Course if your big stacked friend has a hand you are screwed :laugh

[mathare]

I would caveat that this strategy would be based on the fact that i had built a table image of a very tight player who doesnt enter pots unless he has a hand. My all-in would then be respected, especially from an early position with first in 'vigorish' :DEven if you have a loose image people need a better hand than you to play back at you, especially if you shove all-in. Calling an all-in is much harder than raising all-in. You can't be pushed off this pot if you're all-in so someone may think you're on the steal or taking a flyer with rags but what can they do? Were you not all-in they could put in a hefty re-raise and re-steal the pot but that option has been taken away from them with the all-in. They now need a better hand than in the re-raise/re-steal situation. Someone may take a chance with a crappy Ace but you're still in decent shape.


Course if your big stacked friend has a hand you are screwed :laughThis is true in almost any hand though. The earlier (in terms of position) you push the more of a risk you face that someone else has a real hand. But then you'll still see a board so don't rule anything out. Even AA gets cracked...

[Profit Seeker]

Personally I'm shoving. If I'm big stack I'm raising big whatever position in an unraised pot pressurising the small stacks, with a view to calling any all in reraises, if I'm dominated then I'm still alive and no doubt I'll suck out being the jammy big stack anyway. Short stack, especially under 3bbs it's a no brainer, any position. Anything under 12bbs I'm all in there.

[tacker]

This might be results based thinking on your part Mug.Shove every time