Luton already bottom of the league

[mathare]

They will start life in League Two on -15 points for exiting administration without a CVA

[scoobydoo]

Ouch...I know someone who wont be so happy then!:ooo

[MattR]

And to think just a couple of years ago they gave Liverpool a scare in the FA Cup and had a chance of getting in the Championship play offs. Having that penalty in League Two gives a real danger of ending up a non league team a year from now.

[scoobydoo]

You could be right Matt but I've always thought there is a big gap between 1st and 2nd division...maybe I am just going by Lincoln's last performance in
1st though! :D

[Win2Win]

Maybe they should have a play-off with Leeds! :doh

[tophatter]

It aint confirmed yet, some of the news agencies read the statement the people takling the club over posted on the website and took it as read that we will be starting on minus 15 as that is the sanction Leeds faced when they did the same thing.

This is just the end of the long hard road we have been on. The previous cowboys flogged a very decent squad of players who might well have got promoted to the premier league and when the well run dry proceeded to run up massive debts and sack a manager who had rumbled them.

Rowan Vine, Cutis Davies, Kevin Foley, Carlos Edwards, Leon Barnett, Steve Howard, Kevin Nicholls were all sold by those vermin whilst David Edwards and Chris Coyne had to depart when we went in Admin with David Bell, Ahmet Brkovic and Dean Morgan had to either be given free transfers or be sent out on loan.

They nearly destroyed this club but we will fight back.

[MattR]

And it's always the fans who suffer. Good luck for next season TH, 15 point penalty or not, and I hope you climb back up the leagues soon.

[tophatter]

We are happy now,

We have got rid of Jayten and Blackwell and have decent poeple in charge who are manfully trying to clear up the mess.

It aint like the Leeds situation when Ken Bates brought the club back and went into admin on the last day of the season when they were already down.

This lot had to be ousted and at least the wilfull neglect of the club is now over. We can handle minus 15 points if it comes to it - we could not have handled another season of Jayten or their chief apologist Blackwell. It would have killed the club.

[mathare]

10 point deduction in the end

[tophatter]

It aint the end Mat unfortunatley, this is not even the deduction we are expecting for exiting admin without a CVA, that is still to come and will be set by the Football league.

This is for charges for financial irregularities carried out by those cowboys whilst they were destroying our club. This deduction is set by the F.A.

So its even worse than i thought!

[mathare]

So its even worse than i thought!:yikes: Sorry to hear that TH

[Win2Win]

Another load of stupid rules that screw players & fans that have bugger all to do with the owners. :ermmm

The only fair penalty is is ban the owner(s)/companies from ever having anything to do with football ever again.

[pete50]

Whilst I partly agree that it is unfair when it has been previous management, the underlying presumption is that the club has/still is gaining from their actions.
(Mind you tears are rolling down my face - it couldn't happen to a nicer club! Conference have quite strict ground rules so it could be straight to the Ryman!)

[tophatter]

Yeah nice one Pete. How do you work out the club has benefitted from their actions. We spent years of trying to rid the club of this vermin. They dismantled the team flogging off £9M worth of players, sacked a great manager who blew the whistle on them and placed us in admin at a time when they need not have. Get back to worrying about your own club. I would rather watch Ryman football than Hoofroyd managing the game (badly in recent weeks) by time wasting, sterile football and hoofball.

Midn you Im probably preaching to the converted judging by the thousands of empty seats when you played Hull in the play offs. Looks like even your own fans have realised what the rest of football worked out a while ago - watford play a brand of football that is everything that is wrong with football.

Save your sympathy, we will cope with what is thrown at us and we now have our club back. Dont bother replying you would not understand what has gone on at our club and I aint gonna explain it to you.

[MattR]

Midn you Im probably preaching to the converted judging by the thousands of empty seats when you played Hull in the play offs. Looks like even your own fans have realised what the rest of football worked out a while ago - watford play a brand of football that is everything that is wrong with football.
.

I don't know why the seats were empty TH. I was so high up in the stand at the cup final that it would have been the perfect view of the ball from there, with no craning your neck to see it. :D

When we played them in the Premier the season before last it was one of Nico Kranjcar's first games in England and he couldn't believe anybody played football like that, he said he had never seen anything like it.

I've nothing against Watford Pete, but I'm with TH here, that is not football.

[Win2Win]

Ronaldo signs for Luton?





(in 2036)!!!

[pete50]

I was careful to say "presumption" of gain. Presumably players that were acquired also interested other clubs that were "unfairly" robbed of them.
I'm not a fan of Ken Bates but the problems at Leeds were already there and he tried it on a bit too much with the timing of what he did, but its always the fans who suffer.
The jibe about the Ryman league could still be a reality as Aldershot would not be allowed back in the Conference if they are relegated from the Football League due to the more stringent ground regulations in the Conference.
In Aldershot's case they are unable to have any seating on one side of the ground. The Council own the ground and will continue to refuse permission for any development so they are stuck.
And as for my lot I agree that Boothroyd made a great mess of last season and is lucky to keep his job. The style of play was predictable and boring and every away team in the second half of the season had it sussed. Worst problem was the dissent in the dressing room from players that did not agree with the style of play and were quite capable of playing "properly". Most were moved on or left out of the team. Supposedly Boothroyd kept his job (apart from the cost of firing him!), by promising to make great changes in personnel and style of play. We will see.........

[mathare]

Luton will now start the season on -30 points :yikes:

Sorry to say this TH but prepare for at least a season in the conference

[Win2Win]

Just heard that on the radio. The rules are pathetic, and -30 make no sense. They are being penalised more than once for basically the same offence....admin cockups.

[GlosRFC]

Yes, I was going to ask...starting at the bottom of which league???

[Win2Win]

Yes, I was going to ask...starting at the bottom of which league???

20,000 of them by the look of things :rolleyes:

[tophatter]

Its a joke, the football league are acting like gangsters.

We are been punished for having the misfortune of having had a gang of crooks assetstripping our club and then running up huge debts and putting it in admin.

The new owners have nothing to do with them, they hate them, they spent the previous 18 months trying to liberate our club from them - now they are been made to pay for their crimes.

The worst thing about the Football league condition of our return of the golden share (they hold that whilst a club is in admin and unless you receive it back on exit from admon you can not be a member of the football league) is they have said we can only have it if we sign a letter saying we will not appeal the sanctions.

They have also, scandalously, said the new owners must pay half a million pound more for the club than the agreement they made when agreeing the purchase of the business. Basically, the consortium, had an agreement to buy the club for £1.8M which would give the creditors neatly 16p in the pound each. This money was lodged with the administrator waiting for the sale to be concluded on return of the golden share. There was an agreement though that if any points were deducted the price of the sale would be reduced by an amount of I think £36,000 per point up to a max of around half a million pound.

The Football league have said that this can not happen. Legally the consortium can do the deal that they made with the admionistrator but they would not have football league membership. The football league have basically set the price for taking over a club above the heads of the parties involved in doing the deal. And we can not even contest it, as they wont give us our share back unless we say we wont.

We are appealing the 10 point FA deduction which is completley seperate to this deduction and that will be heard on Tuesday. We must get those 10 points back to have a chance of saving the oldest professional club in the south of England from sliding into the non league, just three years after giving every team in the championship more than a match.

[vegyjones]

I don't see how an appeal can't be successful. From what I understand of it, Leeds appeal against their ponts deduction for not aggreing a CVA only failed because of the time they took to lodge an appeal and decisions they made before the appeal (Like agreeing to accept a vote by the league clubs). If Luton appeal, I can not see why they wouldn't get those 20 points back!

[vegyjones]

Hold on, I've just read that they've waived their right to appeal.

[tophatter]

We aint got no option to appeal Vegy, they take away even that basic of rights.

We can appeal the FA 10 point deduction but the FL deduction is set in stone.

They have basically said, if we want to be in their gang, we have to do whatever they say whether we think its right or wrong.

[pete50]

Thought the first appeal was next week? (against the 10 points).
More to the point TH would Luton get in the Conference? My previous point about Aldershot could apply. Aldershot are privately resigned to packing up and starting again if relegated from the League as they will never be allowed back in the Conference with the Recreation Ground as their home.
Luton could be in catch 22 as a new ground has been sought for a long time but with relegation staring you in the face this is not a good time, but without a new ground a bigger fall could come.
I presume with the ground surrounded by housing nothing can be done about the one side of the pitch?
I believe it would just make current Conference requirements but these are currently being reviewed.
Wow - a whole posting without a dig!!

[tophatter]

There is only going to be one appeal, which is been heard by the FA in respect of thier 10 point penalty, as the Football league have held a gun to our head and made as waive that "right"

Im pretty confident the FA panel hearing the appeal will see sense and not continue this persucution of a club trying to recover from the misdemeanours of people who are vermin.

People forget we were punished by Jayten ( the previous owners) asset stripping our team, sacking a great manager out of self preservation, putting us in admin when they were had an offer from the new consortium to take on the club and basically just destroying our club in pursuit of a proverty development deal.

We are free of them now. We will deal with what is thrown atus, even the hell we are going through now is preferable to having to endure any more of their corrupt incompetence.

The thing that annoys me is that the football league cleared these people on their fit and proper persons test. When it turns out they were anything but they wait until they have scarpered and then throw all the penalties at the people trying to pick the club up from the ordeal it has been through.

As for the conference, dont worry im sure Kenilworth Road is fine if we have to go there.

It wont come to that. The club is in good hands now, I have spoken to a couple of the people who will be part of its future and they are true fans but also very shrewd and capable businessmen. If we can get the FA sanction overturned and start on -20 points then I reckon the 5/1 Ladbrokes were offering at the beginning of today on us avoiding relegation this season will be the bet of the season.

We were ready for -15 and that was factored in to the business plan. - 20 would be harder but achievable. -30 though would be an absolute mountain.

Lets hope the F.A. see sense, see that we have been crippled by administration and the sanctions that come with it, and decide to convert our 10 point penalty, for the crimes commited byu the scum who put us in this mess, into a suspended sentance.

Im confident that will happen and if that is the outcome next week in a strange way starting on minus 20 will seem brilliant.

[MattR]

Actually that's a good point TH. Having been resigned to starting on-30, to suddenly be on -20 will in strange way be a lift to the club. Hope they see sense and it goes your way.

I think the key to the season will be the start. A start like Leeds had last season and the momentum is there and as the minus points reduce and the other clubs are reeled in confidence will grow. What you don't need of course is to lose the first couple of games and have a bad start.

What's the team like now that all the asset stripping has ended? Are there likely to be any new signings?

Good luck for the season anyway. It wasn't so long ago we were playing you regularly and we were very close to being wound up at one stage. We've been very lucky in getting an excellent owner who has put the money in whilst being content to let the manager and backroom staff actually run the football side of things and not interfere in any way. It's something not repeated at a lot of clubs and hopefully your new owners will bring the same kind of stability to Luton. Do you think there's any chance Newell could ever be tempted back?

[tophatter]

We have got a very unbalanced squad at the moment - not one centre back and quite a few journeymen hasbeens that are on big money that need offloading. We have not been able to bring anyone in since admin In November and in fact can not even re-sign players whose contracts have expired.

Once out of admin we will have to get rid of the high earners and bring in hungry young players.

On the subject of Mike Newell, it is complicated. He has a unfair dismissal case in against the old company but TUPE regulations now state that a new company has to take on ay outstanding claims.

He will have his day in court and hopefully use it to tell everyone just what happened in those dark days. There is no blad blood between him and the club, in fact the opposite. He got sacked because he urged the press to start investigating the financial goings on at this club. They sacked him for Gross misconduct so they would not have to pay him compensation. They sacked him because they wanted to cover up all the stuff they were up to and did it fully in the knowledge that it would have grave financial and football implicatrions for the club. As with everything they did, they were put their own interests above the good of the club and football in general.

[pete50]

A friend of mine is big mates with Newell and when I last met him just before the end I have never seen anyone look quite so haggard and world weary. He knows I'm one of the Hornets who voted him in but has always seen the funny side! He wasn't talking football or indeed almost anything but God it had got to him.
What I don't understand TH is why he is still so popular with the fans? He did a good job for you but in the end it was his whistle blowing which brought the whole thing down. If the wallies that were running your club were draining it dry the party must have been almost over and they would have gone when the well was dry. Would there not have been a bit more to rescue in those circumstances? If Mike had just left would he not have been more employable in the long run?
As I said he does seem a nice guy and deserving of better but was this really the best way to handle it?