Easy trader pro question.

[jasonpariah]

Is this still to be seen as the most in depth package available in regards to trading?
I have been considering the purchase but with the release of the BF loophole(generally appears to be ridiculed by most),I now have my doubts as to the credibility of the author.
Trading is an area that I would like to get an in depth feel.

[Win2Win]

Easy Trader Pro does the business, as long as you take in the info and use it correctly. Try to make a quick large profit will end in tears, which is why some folk complain about the BF Loophole. It is the punter ballsing up, not the info.

[jasonpariah]

Cool thanks for the fast response,I think I"ll purchase that one as disipline is not an issue for me.
So is the BF loophole worth a look as well?
Although I will probably pick up one of your systems prior to BFL,as I would like to get myself up to speed on betting systems generally(no sense trading in something you know little about,and an additional side profit never hurts:thumbs).

[Win2Win]

So is the BF loophole worth a look as well?

Unless you have succeeded with Easy Trader, you need to hold off on this one. One problem with punters looking to make money is starting too many things at once, and ending up failing at them all and blaming the tipster.

[jasonpariah]

Just been looking at your Flat quick fire,and have got to thinking that this may be a better alternative for me.
Trading requires a morning and afternoon presence at the PC,which may be a problem at times for me.
With there being 5 systems within the one package is it advisable to run an individual bankroll for each or as a whole?
I am only planning on running 1 system at a time till I am comfortable with each though.
Just need to know as to whether I can use the same bankroll as I introduce additional systems or to keep as individual rolls for the relevant systems?

[laffo16]

bfloophole is a very simple to run, much easier to understand then easy trader, thousands of people have already purchased this ebook and are running this system which has probably had a large effect on the systems overall performance.

i ran this system for a straight month at level stakes, it went up and down and broke just broke under even. ive now added a few conditions of my own in an attempt to stop-lose and profit-lose the system, not looking to good i must say, but gonna ride it out ofc, i think i may bank barrier this sytem as im down 20 points after a month n half and see if it can pull back.

i would be wairy of the products etp sends you, he does litrally throw them at you and if your unfamiluar to his emailing stratagies then he may catch you off gaurd and get money out of you. I felt the system criteria for bfloophole was very little and not enough, also the the proofed results in the book only display 1 day of results?? this system is litrally 3-4 conditions to follow just so you know what to expect. i will need to test for longer period of time yet to see if this system can prove proditable.

easy trader pro books are in most very repetative and long read, their are nuggets of decent information in their (far and few between), but i wouldnt consider any of the information in this system any better then any of the info you can find on the forum or from google if you look in the right places. The easy trader is very much for beginners to trading, so if you are new then you should consider it, the books do contain as i said b4 some intresting nuggets of information which i have taken notes on but the majority of the read i found to be repeatative or useless, but use this source as an extra step in your trading experiance.

[jasonpariah]

Thanks 4 the reply laffo.
I think I will indeed actually start with some kind of material from this site(partly due to the daytime requirements of ETP).
Also what has drawn me to this site is the site owners honesty generally(no bells and whistles,just tells it like it is),I found a poker instructor about 18 months a go with much the same attitude and approach,and I have not looked back since(hoping for more of the same here).

[Win2Win]

I've been trading for years, and can make good money from it, but I still learnt plenty from Easy Trader Pro, and I haven't seen the method he used before, and I read EVERYTHING!!

You'll notice that many others on here who purchased it found it useful. Even better if you use some of the tips by programming them into Betangel. You always need to read things like this at least twice, as you will miss some points the first time.

[Street cry]

I would go for easy trader pro ahead of bf loophole but in all honesty you would be better off buying one of the win2win system ebooks i would rcommend running for profit as being abetter long term investment than any of the ETP type packages

[jasonpariah]

Well I eventually came to a decision and have given ETP a go.
The past week so far has proven to be profitable,so I am not dissappointed in my choice so far(been using the WOM system).
I have been trading with very low stakes obviously as I am just starting out,but I came across something in one of the ETP videos that brought up a question.
I see him on more than one occasion put his entire roll in to a back or lay bet,and then put the opposing bet in for the same amount.My question is how can you make that second bet if your roll went in on the first?
Sorry if this is in any way a dumb question but,as I am just getting started its a confusing concept.

[Street cry]

because the first part of the trade covers the liability in most cases

[yantz]

Even better if you use some of the tips by programming them into Betangel.

thats what i did too but the results are not very encouraging. for €10 stakes, i only profit abt €0.20-€0.50 per race. before i bought the ebook, i already knew the concept of trading using wom. after reading the book, the wom system makes even more sense.

but i got 2 problems
1. i dont really understand what the exact weight is? 10%? 20%? 30%? and how heavy the inner column from the middle and outer column?

2. his tips on exit is very very good. in fact i was previously doing the opposite and if i were doing his way from start, i would have profited more. but betangel automatic trigger requires tick offset. how do you set it to "ride" instead? if you know what i mean.

eg. =LAY [OFFSET :1 FILL_KILL : TRUE KILL DELAY : 60 STOP :3 TRAILING_STOP : TRUE WITH_GREENING : TRUE]

this is what i need instead:
=LAY [FILL_KILL : TRUE KILL DELAY : 60 STOP :3 TRAILING_STOP : TRUE WITH_GREENING : TRUE]

i did win a bigger profit on the us market but after 3 good races, i lost everything in the 4th race. the market got suspended a good 4 mins before the off with my trade open. sigh! the greyhound is where i got that €0.20-€0.50 per race on €10 stakes. havent tried uk horse win market yet. too scary

[Win2Win]

One for Street Cry I think :laugh

Not sure what your questions are! :doh

WOM you find out by watching the markets and working it out manually before writing it into Excel.

I think you need to learn VBA, that will give you much more power. I recommend the Dummies Guide....and if Street Cry can learn it....anyone can :peeky ................is he here? :yikes:

[Street cry]

you .... right off keith ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

firstly it is hard to automate fully around low liquidity markets, i do not know how you are automating the rest of your rules but i struggle to see how you would be able to profit with an out and out wom approach if you are using stops because the spread can be very large on these markets.
I assume you are looking for an unusually large amount of money to skew the wom and then jump in front of it witha stop behind it which makes sense in theory.

One tip would be to actually specify the columns in numeracey as oppose to just apercentage if there is £4 in each column on the layside and £1 on the back then your wom would be very low and could trigger you in to atrade but there is no liquidity so your scalability potential is basically 0.

Build your criteria around common sense.

You are tackling avolatile low liquidity market so you want to operate when it is as stable as possible volume wise. Use a truth table in excel to establish your rules.
I would be looking to trade breakouts and i find that an amount of £300-1000 would cause this in a BEGS meeting so.

=if(g7>350,1, )

then perhaps you want to be entering where the columns have only one price gap between the back and lay price

=IF(((F6+0.001)/(G6+0.001))>Criteria!$B$8,1,)

note that criteria b8 is 95%

you also know that you want to open the trade with x amount so lets say you want a tenner on.

=IF(F7>10,1,0)

you obviously realise how to specify wom to an extent but you should be looking to put emphasis on the inner most column. i use 50 30 20.

I am sure you know how to put these rules in atable and then have atrigger for the operation.

=IF(AD7=1,"BACK OFFSET:"&Criteria!$B$14&" FILL_KILL:TRUE KILL_DELAY:"&Criteria!$B$16&" STOP:"&Criteria!$B$18&" TRAILING_STOP:TRUE WITH_GREENING:TRUE","")

the red text is reference to set variables i have for each part of the process ie stop , trailing stop etc if you replace these with the destination of your rules you will have aworkable model

[yantz]

thx for the very detailed reply Street cry!! thats precisely what i dont understand even after reading etp a few times. i just cant find the right combinations to use. up till now, i'm still struggling to find the best weight to use.

with regards to betangel, what i would want is to be able to set a trigger without using offset, but just trailing stop. as per the author chris, i would want to "ride" it.

[Street cry]

well thats easy just set an offset that wont be triggered ie 200 ticks and a trail stop odf perhaps 3, only problem is in the low liquidity volatile markets any stop under about 20 is going to get triggered pretty easily

When you say right combinations of wom do you mean the configuration ie 33% 33% 33% or the whole wom ie 80% for laying or 20% for backing.

dont get too caught up on wom percentages look for common sense factors that are definitely influential. One thing i have looked for is simply trying to get abreakout type trade on racing markets by jumping in front of a 4 figure order that is in prime position and riding it.
Don't as i say dont get too bogged down on wom % thnk of what works and apply it automatedly

[Street cry]

just had a look at etp and what you are trying to do. Looking at the authors aproach on the example trade he doesnt just back the avilable money does he, he puts a more favourable offer to the market than the available money and then trades it off inside the spread which i would define in this instance as the area between the best available back and lay prices which is quite large in low liquidity markets. I would not really recommend a short stop or a long offset in these areas myself.

I think i know what you mean about wom you dont know how to calculate it

you need to add up the value of the money in the back cells divide it by the money in all the cells and x that by 100 for the wom %

[yantz]

well thats easy just set an offset that wont be triggered ie 200 ticks and a trail stop odf perhaps 3, only problem is in the low liquidity volatile markets any stop under about 20 is going to get triggered pretty easily[QUOTE]

thx!! thats what i was looking for!

[QUOTE=Street cry;480962]One thing i have looked for is simply trying to get abreakout type trade on racing markets by jumping in front of a 4 figure order that is in prime position and riding it.
Don't as i say dont get too bogged down on wom % thnk of what works and apply it automatedly

right i'll try, thx!!

yantz

[Win2Win]

Glad to have helped :rolleyes: :D

[counterfeit]

Is there anybody else who has read this thread and come to the end and thought "wtf was that all about"?

Or am I just dim?

waits patiently for sarcy reply from Keith :wink

[Street cry]

Is there anybody else who has read this thread and come to the end and thought "wtf was that all about"?



yep me ha ha ha ha ha

[Win2Win]

:ermmm It's all so simple even a banker could understand it, and that is well down the intelligence pecking order :laugh

[Street cry]

how's this going for you yantz ???

[redandblue]

I think I will indeed actually start with some kind of material from this site(partly due to the daytime requirements of ETP).


Hi, Is there a thread that allow me to find out the differences between BF loophole, ETP, and other materials from this site? Some kind of comparison will be very helpful.
laffo16, hows it going with dfloophole?
And for the guys who have been trading successfully, how much time you normally spend on trading each day? As a total beginner, what ebook, software, trading system you would recommend me to start and progress with?
Thanks.
r&b

[Street cry]

i have been using ETP for the last month and it made a 22% increase in the bank which isnt enough to warrant me continuing. 22% is £220 puttting a grand on each trade and it is hard to get that on in truth, i have to use both exchanges to get that on so really there is no room for manouver. Now some months may return more and if you had 10 other processes returning 20% a month it is a fully acceptable addition to your portfolio based on what i have found in one month.

However etp is labour intensive and i have more important currency trades to manage throughout the day so i will not be continuing with etp.

BF loophole involves partaking in very low liquidity markets and i would not recommend it.
I will say that etp is a decent e book it is educational and it is based upon common sense variables. Other products from the same vendor have been very poor but i would honestly say that etp is decent and worthwhile examining.

I would say that the best thing to do would be buy betangel and go through it all , concentrate on charting and market behaviour. Do not get too caught up with scalping and wom strategies , look for general moves and build a strategy around that approach.
The best thing i could say is ensure scalability is an inbuilt consideration from the outset good luck

[yantz]

how's this going for you yantz ???

hey sc its not very bad at all! i was profitting around eur 0.30-0.50 per race as mentioned earlier right. after reading your comments and a little fiddling with the numbers in my spreadsheet, my profit per race now is about eur 3-5. with abt 5-6 races per hour, i'm happy with the eur 20-30/hour that i got now. and the best part is, its all automated!

i really want to thank both you and keith for your kind help!!

yantz

ps keith, i even added your lay system, the one under testing, free on the main page, to my portfolio. 2-3 free points/day. hoorayyy!!!

[Street cry]

good stuff , did you end up using quite a big stop loss and trailing the stop ? and did you impliment the factors that ensure liquidity that i mentioned. I assume that the gains you are refering to our derived from the racing markets, have you had any success on the greyhounds yet ? glad you are doing well anyway SC

[yantz]

not on the horses, too afraid for that. i got them from the greyhounds. yup i used a big stop loss and a small trailing stop. the spreadsheet fired in quite a lot of trades per race. some trades shows red. but at the end, at 1min20secs before off, all would be green :D

thx again sc!!
yantz

[Street cry]

???? by big stop loss and small trailing stop do you mean small offset big stop loss , or small stoploss big offset. you can't have a big stop and a small trailing stop. The trailing stop is the same amount as the stop loss so if you offset at say 20 which is essentially your profit take and stop at 5 your trailing stop has to be 5 ticks away from current price.

I think you mean you are using a small stop loss and a large offset so you can ride your trades out.
Are you doing as i suggested and looking for large amounts to inbalance the market or are you just concentrating on the general wom on the favs.

One thing i would say is that if you are using abig stoploss and a small offset then be careful as it may appear you are profitable at first but you will need to get alot of results down before you really know cheers sc

[yantz]

I think you mean you are using a small stop loss and a large offset so you can ride your trades out.

exactly. thats what i did. :D


Are you doing as i suggested and looking for large amounts to inbalance the market or are you just concentrating on the general wom on the favs.

yup just as you suggested, the spreadsheet only look for large imbalances in the market, for every runner, not just the fav. i did not use 40%-30%-30% or other combinations. i just look for large imbalances in the inner columns as you suggested. and they do come up often in a single race :D

[Street cry]

pleased to help, i look for amounts of about £350 on the greyhounds and £2000-5000 on the horses but you get the better volatility on the greyhounds so would stick to them.

Also try american and australian horse racing as they portray similar charachteristics to the hounds.
One thing i would say is that you should still be using some sort of wom % even if you are not breaking it down individually, also if you are configured to lets say 70% 20% 10% that is the same as using a large sum in the inner column but you would need to couple this with ageneral liquidty calcilation.
did you implement the cell for insuring there is not too larger gap that i posted up ??

[yantz]

Also try american and australian horse racing as they portray similar charachteristics to the hounds.

i mentioned earlier i did try us horse racing, but i got caught out once when just after i opened a position, a micro-second later, the market got suspended and after the result came out, i lost :yikes: after that i banned myself from that market


did you implement the cell for insuring there is not too larger gap that i posted up ??

that, i have not tried. maybe those reds are coming from those odds without gaps?! you have any numbers for say 2 or 3 tick gaps? thx

yantz

[Street cry]

the times are a bit bad with foreign horse markets so maybe best keep to greyhounds.

The ideal entry is without a gap between the prices because if there is agap of any significance it can bring your stop in too early.

If your stop is say 10 ticks then you could have a fairly genrous parameter for odds gap between the back and lay odds say up to 5 increments.
If you state what your stop is then i'll post you up some code of what i feel is acceptable for your specific requirements

[yantz]

hey sc, my offset is at 10 ticks, trailing stop is set at 2 ticks

yantz

[Street cry]

wow thats a close stop for these markets and i am suprised you have done well at this level especially if you are not ensuring there is no gap between odds.
My personal greyhound set up is 30 tick ofset 5 tick trail stop but if you are enusring there is a decent sum to cause the breakout it helps things.
I am currently looking to have around £300 in place to cause the move but i have it as fluid is i can by ensuring total volume of money is £300 or more with 80% on the lay side and that is shared 70 20 10 my gap calculation is thus.

=IF(((F6+0.001)/(G6+0.001))>95,1,)

this can be designated to a cell so that it only adds to the calculation if the gap is reasonable. I'll write asheet with
the offset you have in it and add some other variables and see how it goes , i'll try and then send you it and you may get some useful stuff from it

[redandblue]

Hi SC and yantz,
All these very technical things you are talking about are just using Betangel with spread sheet, not using Easy Trade Pro, right?

[Street cry]

the method is weight of money trading from the ETP manual but to be honest i would not reccomend it as their is not alot of money about and you would be better off forming ahorse trading strategy and trading manually like i suggested the other day .
It is programmed in to bet angel via excel / vba but it is a lot to learn

[yantz]

cool i'll be waiting for your good result!

yantz

[Street cry]

dont get me wrong, trading automatedly on greyhounds can be profitable but when you are just learning it is best to use high volume markets and formulate a manual strategy.
If you do want any help on trading and programming low liquidity markets i'll give you some pointers as i will with all betfair trading but the place to start when trading is on the favs in horse races .