Poker Analysis (turbo 10 pays 5 STT - 6th)

[mathare]

I'm gonna breakdown my recent tourneys hand by hand and analyse my play as objectively as I can. I'll start with my recent bad run and then move on to a few I have cashed in so I (we?) can try to identify holes in my game.

Feel free to pass comment on any of this. Would you have played any of these hands any different?

Bad Tourneys - or rather Tourneys I Lost
These are all $5+0.50 10 pays 5 tourneys I have played over the last few days during my current bad spell.

12th July 18.17pm start - Finishing position: 6th out of 10
1. Called (limped) on the button with 56s - 5 see flop
Checked round on flop & turn - now 2 clubs on board
Don't hit river
Fold when early pos bets 55 into 110 pot

That was OK. The limp was questionable really but after that the play was OK really. I could have bet the flop though but to fold when I missed was the right move.

2. Fold rags

3. Limp with ATo in mid-late after 3 limpers in early pos - 6 players (120)
Flop comes A-2-5 two clubs
Bet of 100 from early, called and I call, BB check-calls - 4 players (520)
Turn comes 2s to pair board
Checked to me - bet 300 and get 2 callers - 3 players (1420)
River = Qs
Check, all-in (1060) & I fold as does other player
All-in player takes pot

The key here is the turn bet - was it the right move? I was trying to semi-bluff steal I guess hoping that two pair might be good and trying to see if anyone was drawing to the flush or had a set. I rightly bailed when the Q came down.

4. Fold rags
5. Ditto
6. Fold 45s in early pos
7. Fold 23s UTG

8. Dealt 72s on big blind, check & 4 players see flop (120)
T-8-2, one of my suit
SB bets out (30) & I fold

9. Folded round to me in the SB with AQo
I raise to 100 and BB folds

10. Fold rags
11. Ditto

12. Limp in mid-position with 22
SB raises to 100 and 3 players, including me call - 4 players (400)
Flop is A-3-9 rainbow
SB bets 400 & everyone folds

13. I limp UTG+1 with QJs. BB checks - 2 players (125)
Flop comes A-9-K one of my suit
BB checks, I bet 100 and BB folds

14. Limp with 66 UTG - 5 players (250)
Flop = 7-J-8 rainbow
Checked round to 1 off button who bets 250, everyone else folds

15. SB raises to 100 and I fold 65o

16. I fold 95s to a 6xBB raise from 1 off the button

17. Fold rags on button
18. Fold 56s when there is an all-in in front of me

I'm happy with my play so far in this tourney, I think. My stack is only 885 with the blinds at 50/100 so I am shove/fold territory from hereon in. Should my stack be this low? The main questionable bet was the 300 into the 550 pot in the third hand. I was on 2 pair raising for information and on a semi-bluff steal. Was the raise credible? I had called the flop bet (which was a good size) which shows some strength, especially as it was an overcall. In the bettors shoes I'd be thinking I'm facing at least one Ace here. I bet out when they checked the board pairing to me and I think I made a decent size bet. I'm not scared by the board pairing, or at least that is what the bet is designed to say. But it gets callers for whatever reason. When the Q hits and the fella goes all in I can't beat much so I am out of there sharpish. Without knowing what the others held it's hard to say if their calls of my turn bet were right. Anyone on a flush draw didn't have odds. It's a good bet by the all-in player, a good 'steal' (as I don't know he had air, he may have connected). I was behind to too many hands and unwilling to bust out on the third hand which is why I folded.

So that's how I got to the hand that saw me exit the tourney...

19. QJo in mid-position so I shove. SB is massive chip leader and calls with A9o
Board blanks on every street and I am out.

Did I make any mistakes? I was in prime push/fold territory so I was gonna have to start making moves soon. I was the table short-stack and on the bubble. In my opinion I was a little unlucky that the big stack had half a hand. I was behind 43-57 pre-flop, 27-73 on the flop and same on the turn so it's not exactly surprising that I lost.

Would I have played those hands the same way now? Yes, I think I probably would. I don't think this was played any differently to how I would normally play one of these events, rightly or wrongly.

[crazybadger]

I think you've analysed that pretty well. The 300 raise in 3rd hand was alright imo and you were tough enough to lay it down when you thought you were beat. Then again 3 callers on the 100 might mean they've all got something alright or that they might be loose and another 300 might not deter them...but thats too tough to say when its 3rd hand in a new game.

I thought your play on 12 was interesting. Calling the 100 with 22 preflop. Had the other 2 called before you? I'm not a big fan of low pairs and if people called before I would be thinking about getting out there.

Otherwise I think the cards just didnt fall your way. Could easily have had luck on one of those limped in hands, or got some when you shoved but just didnt happen.

[mathare]

I thought your play on 12 was interesting. Calling the 100 with 22 preflop. Had the other 2 called before you? I'm not a big fan of low pairs and if people called before I would be thinking about getting out there.Yeah, I didn't open limp. In fact on the raise my call closed the betting if I remember rightly. It was perhaps a little loose but I limped with the blinds at 25/50 trying to see a cheap flop and when the SB min-raises and two other players call I am getting good odds on the call, especially as I am last to act.

I'm pretty sure I will uncover holes in my play when I look at a few other tourneys tonight but this one was probably just the way the cards fell

[silax]

it looks ok to me matt. on your 300 bet hand the biggest problem i see is 6 people seeing the flop the outs are there to be seen and although you have a top pair. i personally proberbly would have folded at this point in the game, but hindsight is a wonderful thing and its very hard to give an honest opinion unless you actually play the hand.
the key to it all is how early in the game you are giving up 300 chips and with so many callers and so many outs available there is also the chance that a couple of people could be out of the game at this point leaving you in a good position to collect the bacon just sitting there waiting for a big hand. you may have hit on the flop but really its a nightmare flop for you the other optionis an all in call hoping nobody has the straight.
anyway i look at it its a tough hand and very hard to anylise let alone play well.
everything else you did sems pretty decent play the pocket 2's is a chance to seal your place inthe cash if you hit.
just not getting the cards in this game i guess.
my games crap at the minute played over 5 hours of mtt's and best hand i've had has been JJ.
keep posting your games interesting to see how you play and helps my own game by analysing yours.

[mathare]

it looks ok to me matt. on your 300 bet hand the biggest problem i see is 6 people seeing the flop the outs are there to be seen and although you have a top pair. i personally proberbly would have folded at this point in the game, but hindsight is a wonderful thing and its very hard to give an honest opinion unless you actually play the hand.I had top pair and a middling kicker. I could be out-kicked and low straight draws and flush draws could love that flop. I limped to try and see a cheapish flop with a middling Ace to see what I could hit on the flop. I felt I would have odds to call pre-flop and see what the flop brought. Calling the 100 bet was OK I reckon as I had odds to call it. Maybe I should have raised to 300 or more then and found out where I was. That would have been one option I guess.



the key to it all is how early in the game you are giving up 300 chips and with so many callers and so many outs available there is also the chance that a couple of people could be out of the game at this point leaving you in a good position to collect the bacon just sitting there waiting for a big hand. you may have hit on the flop but really its a nightmare flop for you the other optionis an all in call hoping nobody has the straight. I don't think the straight is a massive problem there. That bet on the end makes me think the guy could have hit a set, 2s or maybe even Queens if he was playing along with QQ from the start. In fact that fills him up doesn't it as the board paired? Would he be scared of the A on the flop with QQ? Possible. I can't decide how likely it is he held QQ based on his bets but it's definitely an option. The A on the flop scared him, the 2 on the turn didn't help much but the Q on the river filled his boat. He then bets big hoping for a loose call maybe?


everything else you did sems pretty decent play the pocket 2's is a chance to seal your place inthe cash if you hit.Thanks. That was my thinking on the 2s, yeah.


keep posting your games interesting to see how you play and helps my own game by analysing yours.I will do :)

[John]

Nice work Mat. Not got time to look at this right now but definitely will when I have. Will contribute soon.

[silax]

one at a time please matt

[silax]

have only just looked at the start of the first one and its confusing me have 2 games close together but on number limping with 22 no probs there then everybody has checked and you've got the opertunity of hitting a free card and you miss that by putting in a bet 6 players and like you say somebody has got to have a pair. so your options to me are either fold or take the free card the pots only 180 chips and you've just lost 100 trying to steal it or buy info as you call it. get a free card if its a 2 you should pick up a nice pot. If not you've lost nothing really.
no 7 stupid boy lost 25 chips through porn on internet wake up.
sorry giving up analysing your game getting lost with the amount of games in this thread can you put each one in a sperate thread for those of us with small brains

[mathare]

can you put each one in a sperate thread for those of us with small brainsSure, I'll split them up. Hang on...

[markwales]

Interesting stuff Mat, I guess the 5 pays 5 format is key here, and as I don't play these whatsoever I am not really in a great position to comment but will have a bash all the same.

Hand 3 - I wouldn't have raised, I'd have checked it down and let the others play the river before me. You're behind to so many hands there really and no need to get involved this early with the number of draws on that board. The fold to the push was standard.

Hand 12. The talked about 22 mid pos.... I definately fold to the SB's raise. In fact I probably fold rather than limp.

Hand 13. Nice C-bet from you there, however I'd have made it a pot sized 125 - albeit you won the hand, just saying what I'd have done.

Hand 14. I'd either raise to 3 x BB or fold 66 UTG. I'd never limp any marginal in that position.

Shoving QJ from mid on the bubble with 8 x BB's in your stack is table specific for me. Depends on the stacks behind you as if I was on anything more than 2k in the blinds I'd call with A2C (Any 2 Cards) every time here as your pushing range is so big it's pretty much guaranteed to be a flip.

Interesting stuff though, and may do this for an MTT over the weekend..... that's if I can stop playing 4 at a time!!

[mathare]

Hand 3 - I wouldn't have raised, I'd have checked it down and let the others play the river before me. You're behind to so many hands there really and no need to get involved this early with the number of draws on that board. The fold to the push was standard.I haven't raised at any point in the hand but I assume you mean the bet out on the turn. I could have checked it down, true.


Hand 12. The talked about 22 mid pos.... I definately fold to the SB's raise. In fact I probably fold rather than limp.You'd fold after the limp even though it's only 50 chips into a 300+ pot and my call closes the action, if I recall correctly? Folding 22 in mid-position rather than limping is a decent alternative though I have to admit.


Hand 13. Nice C-bet from you there, however I'd have made it a pot sized 125 - albeit you won the hand, just saying what I'd have done.I tend to be suspicious of pot-sized c-bets so tend to make mine around 3/4 of the pot or thereabouts.


Hand 14. I'd either raise to 3 x BB or fold 66 UTG. I'd never limp any marginal in that position.I should have folded this one. 66 UTG is not normally a hand I would play I must admit.


Shoving QJ from mid on the bubble with 8 x BB's in your stack is table specific for me. Depends on the stacks behind you as if I was on anything more than 2k in the blinds I'd call with A2C (Any 2 Cards) every time here as your pushing range is so big it's pretty much guaranteed to be a flip.All very true, yep. I know from experience with this type of tourney that the endgame play is very poor and stacks that I think should call tend to be too weak and fold. I guess that is what I was hoping for here. The SB makes a similar play to one that got me in trouble in another tourney (see Poker Analysis part 3) - calling a decent all-in shove with a big stack hoping to bring the game to an end quicker. The differences here though are the SB had a significantly bigger stack than I did when I made the play and a stronger hand. It was the right move by him though, that's for sure. Was it the right move by me? I dunno but that's how I tend to play these games. Be interesting to see how I have played in other events, and especially the later stages of events I have cashed in and compare those to this one.


Interesting stuff though, and may do this for an MTT over the weekend..... that's if I can stop playing 4 at a time!!I'd like to see someone else have a crack at this sort of thing, definitely. I think for an MTT you probably don't want to go through every hand like I am though.

[markwales]

Thanks for the reply Mat, interesting to see how people differ... and as mentioned I've never played these 5p5 tournies, so don't really know what strategy to play in them.

I'll try to only play 1 MTT tonight, probably the Cryptologic $4k Head Hunter at 7.44pm or a Pokerstars 180 seater $12 affair and will type up the plays as I go. Obviously I won't comment on every hand as that would be utter madness - I assume you've done it from HH's after the event?

[mathare]

Thanks for the reply Mat, interesting to see how people differ... and as mentioned I've never played these 5p5 tournies, so don't really know what strategy to play in them.To my mind they are all about endgame/bubble play. You need to build/maintain a stack that can survive better than the others once the blinds rise and we're into push/fold territory. Generally speaking the bubble play is dreadful and you can steal a lot of blinds in the later levels by shoving as short stacks fold rather than bust out. They value their tourney life more than perhaps they should, hoping to limp into the cash. It's true that there is no benefit in cash terms to having 5000 chips rather than 50 chips when the bubble bursts as all places pay the same but I find this twists the way some people play and 'think'.


I'll try to only play 1 MTT tonight, probably the Cryptologic $4k Head Hunter at 7.44pm or a Pokerstars 180 seater $12 affair and will type up the plays as I go. Obviously I won't comment on every hand as that would be utter madness - I assume you've done it from HH's after the event?Should be interesting. I used Poker Office's replayer facility which basically works of hand histories. I find it interesting to view the hands in the cold light of day rather than in the heat of the moment

[markwales]

Tried to do this whilst playing the $4k head hunter but it's impossible to keep up to speed. Will try to do something with the key hands through the instant hand history.

Just took down a nice pot with air after c-betting to the river with 2 weak calling stations (1 with notes, 1 Greek!).

[mathare]

I've never played against many (any) Greeks. Do they have a certain style then? You don't get many on Ladbrokes - mostly Brits and Scandies on there

[mathare]

There are plenty more threads like this if any else wants to pass comment on my play. I am posting up all my recent losers and will then show how I played a few winners.

If no-one cares that suits me too, I really don't mind. I am finding this an incredibly useful exercise and the way my mind works I need to write these things down so it makes sense, to me at least, to post them up here.