Speed ratings and sectional timing

[wb]

Speed ratings seem to be the new holy grail according to some, but I'll be as bold to say that I find them useless - especially in NH.

NH racing is all about tactics - holding up horses, finding a gap, you name it. Why do people place so much emphasis on speed ratings where the tactics are what really dictate how the race is run?

Don't get me wrong - I'm willing to be convinced if someone comes up with a credible argument.

It's like the sectional timing in flat. Ok, in the US, they have proper recording of ST's, but in the UK they don't (and they certainly don't in Ireland). How well/poorly a horse clocks in the first few furlongs is meaningless if you ask me as it all boils down to what instructions the jockey is giving.

Am I blinkered? Can anyone convince me?
I'm always dying to learn new ways of looking at racing, but speed ratings and sectional timing just don't convince me - yet.

[Win2Win]

They are useless, but can be used as a guide, and a low level filter in systems. Have I convinced you? :doh :D

The problem with speed ratings is they don't take account of the wind, accurate ground readings, where the stalls are, which part of the track are fenced off, the people doing the ratings, guess the adjustments.....very scientific!!!

I don;t argue with people over them, I have more than enough statistical evidence to back what I say, and that helps make me money. That is all I need to know.

[mathare]

Speed ratings seem to be the new holy grail according to someI thought they were an old holy grail. I thought they were a late-90s/early-00s thing that most people had decided were now too much effort to maintain themselves and not that much use anyway.

The seminal work on speed ratings (Beyer on Speed) was printed in 1993...

[TheOldhamWhisper]

The only real use for speed ratings are to jusdge how quick/slow the track is running. If the first race is run 'above standard', you can probably eliminate any horse which acts well on Soft to Heavy grounds and include all horses that like Good to Firm and faster in your calculations.

[wb]

I thought they were an old holy grail. I thought they were a late-90s/early-00s thing that most people had decided were now too much effort to maintain themselves and not that much use anyway.

The seminal work on speed ratings (Beyer on Speed) was printed in 1993...

Yeah, 'new' was the wrong word perhaps, but they're making a comback though and there's a revised interest in them shall we say. A few of the newer books I've bought (and revised additions) are calling for them to be recorded properly - and Nick Mordin bangs on about it in the weekender every week. The voices in the RP (paper) are getting louder again too. I think the main problem lies in that they are not accurate in this side of the world and it's partly based on guesstimates. However, in a book I read 'betting on flat handicaps' (Can't remember the author) - they guy is happy that they are not recorded properly as he reckons that's where he makes his money by putting in the work others wont do.

Anything I've tried based on speed ratings never worked to well, but I'm willing to revisit if I can find an angle.

[Mavrick]

For me, speed ratings are the holy grail and they get more and more powerful as times goes by as people are getting lazier. Especially people that use systems!

Ignore all weight adjusted ratings as they are a complete load of tosh.

Personally I think they are far more valuable on the NH then they are on the flat! A horse has a style of running so to say it is more about tactics then a horses speed is simply not true as I've given a horse near enough the same rating for 5+ runs regardless if at a glance the race appeared to be run slow or quick.

They form the basis of 99%+ of all of my bets and always will and I've been a profitable punter for 8 years!

Speed ratings will never get a great reception here as this site is geared towards systems but, I think if you asked the same question on a more form based forum you would get a completely different answer.

No offense intended but, compilers place huge emphasis on SRs and for good reason. They will tell you everything about an exposed runner. Distance, going, track, performance pattern etc

[Win2Win]

Speed ratings will never get a great reception here as this site is geared towards systems but, .....
I use 50% method/50% systems, and have been using method betting far longer than systems. Plus the fact method betting is loose system betting. So if you use speed ratings, then your first variable is speed ratings whatever you call it, and that is the start of a system. :thumbs

Speed ratings are useless on their own, and can only be of any use when taking a lot of other things into account, so method wise, they work out the same way as using them in a system, they are a filter.

The reason why they work out better on the NH is because the form is much easier, and ALL ratings outperform the flat over NH.

Speed ratings, Raceform, Timeform, Racedata, etc, none of them make money as is, you need other variables, which then makes the ratings a guide only.