Ladbrokes Poker Experience Invitational Freeroll

[mathare]

I'm not a big fan of MTTs and haven't played many for ages. I'm even less of a fan of freerolls as I don't see the point of playing poker for several hours and only winning a few dollars at most. However, the missus is away this weekend and I got an e-mail from Ladbrokes inviting me to play in their Poker Experience Invitational Freeroll with 30 seats up fro grabs in the monthly Poker Experience Final with winners from that going through to win a $1200 package for the Ladbrokes Poker Experience event in November. It's basically a boot camp at a hotel in London with hotel accomodation etc included so could be interesting.

Anyway, I decided to play this freeroll for something to do this afternoon and to feed the poker desire as I haven't had much chance to play recently. I started slowly and didn't think I was going to do very well but built my chips up by the first break and then came out firing to build a very nice stack and to become tourney chip leader for a little while. I then got into a bit of trouble with some hands (QQ springs immediately to mind) and lost a good chunk of my stack after the second break but I was still in there and there were plenty of stacks shorter than mine so I wasn't that worried. There was also a lot of poor end game play so as long as I could steal a few blinds here and there I'd be fine. And that's pretty much what happened. It turned into a bit of an all-in fest when we were down to 30 players as all got the same prize but I hung around long enough to make the final table and finish third, for my own pride as much as anything else.

The seat's only worth $80 + $8 but it's better than a kick in the knackers :)

[silax]

very good matt freerolls can be a nightmare to get anywhere but you earned a seat in what hopefully will be a nice tourny for you

[John]

Nice one. All MTTs tend to be an all in fest towards the end, particularly when there are anywhere up to 30 people remaining. It's pot luck if you're short stacked - it's you against the other guy(s) against the board and, from personal experience, I don't have a lot of luck in these situations. AA, KK, QQ a lot of the time get shot down towards the end to short stackers. Not a lot you can do.

Anyway when's the $1200 tournament happening?

[mathare]

Nice one. All MTTs tend to be an all in fest towards the end, particularly when there are anywhere up to 30 people remaining. It's pot luck if you're short stacked - it's you against the other guy(s) against the board and, from personal experience, I don't have a lot of luck in these situations. AA, KK, QQ a lot of the time get shot down towards the end to short stackers. Not a lot you can do.This one was very much the opposite of that as the bubble approached and only turned into an all-in fest when the bubble burst and everyone was guaranteed the same prize. The all-in nature of the play at that stage is just a natural result of the flat prize structure


Anyway when's the $1200 tournament happening?7th September I think it is

[mathare]

Tonight's the big night.

Well, I say big night but I don't really mean. Yes, it'll be the biggest buy-in tourney I have ever played ($80+8) but I don't really expect to get very far as I am putting myself at an immediate disadvantage to most other players by refusing to part with a penny so I won't be taking advantage of the half-price rebuys or the add-on. There are currently under 100 runners with 7 places paid at present but that may increase as the rebuys come into play. I plan to just play my normal game and see where that gets me. It's a learning experience more than anything else for me this evening

[silax]

ok matt a bit of advice sit tight for the first hour it means you'll be down on chips but in when the game settles down. first hours of re-buys are crazy with people going all in with nothing trying to fluke a nice lead. maybe the cost of the rebuy will put the idiots off a little

[mathare]

Still in at the first break but with a pretty poor stack. I have basically got my starting stack still. Only 30 or so rebuys so not the crazy fest I expected

[mathare]

Made the 2nd break with a sligthly healthier stack in BB terms but not massively

[mathare]

And I'm out :(

Finished 33rd out of 99 starters and was always facing a struggle to get anywhere. By the first break the highest my stack had been was around 2500 (from a start of 2000) and the lowest was around 1800 so I was dabbling in small pots even though I got some big hands, including quad 7s at one point. I went into the first break with around 1950 in chips with the blinds going up to 75/150 after the break. I had a complete brainfart midway through the 5th level and dropped around 600-700 chips for no real reason. From there I went on the offensive a little and managed to build a stack slowly but surely but the blinds were keeping up with me and by the second break I had around 4500 chips with the blinds going to 300/600. I got moved just before the BB hit me and that gave me a few hands at my new table before I had to pay the blinds. Unfortunately I never got beyond paying the BB once on my new table as I tangled with a stack twice my size and lost.

I had 85o in the BB and the SB called. I consider shoving there and then as a steal and maybe I should have. Flop comes 753 all spades matching the 8s in my hand and pairing my 5. My opponent bets 1200 (pot) and I go for the shove semi-bluff raising to 4040. He calls and flips over 99 with one of them a spade so even the flush won't save me now unless I get runner-runner straight flush. I don't as the turn and river both blank out and that's me out the tournament in 33rd.

I'm a bit gutted to have played poker for two and a quarter hours and not got anything to show for it but I was a long way away from making the final table and with only 9 places paid (8 tickets to the poker experience and 1 cash prize of $520) I would have needed to get some luck and make some moves. You always need luck in these things and I didn't get any really big starting hands when I could have done with them. I didn't see a pair bigger than TT all night.

But I held my own and I played alright I think. There was no noticeable jump in standard from my usual games really. That may be because of the nature of the tournament (maybe a lot of the field had freerolled in like me) but either way I feel I acquitted myself alright.

I'm knackered now though :laugh

[silax]

sounds like a very tight afair matt with the rebuy option for the first hour dose tend to make it a longer game.
for no cash must have been a good experience into the mtt world where there is a lot more luck then skill. what you do have to do is review your push fold tactics throughout the game for instance when blinds are 10/20 my push fold level is anything below 900 chips but when the blinds get higher they come more in line with normal play and when the blinds go higher again the level comes down if you know what i mean.

[mathare]

what you do have to do is review your push fold tactics throughout the game for instance when blinds are 10/20 my push fold level is anything below 900 chips but when the blinds get higher they come more in line with normal play and when the blinds go higher again the level comes down if you know what i mean.Err, not sure I follow you there Silax. It sounds to me like you'd push with 45 big blinds if I am understanding you right

[silax]

at the start of a game if i have the hand yes then you have to reduce and increase your push fold territory as the game goes on i'm always looking for a double up so if i have a lot of chips generally wait for the others to catch up.
i know its a different way to you play but can be very good

[mathare]

i know its a different way to you play but can be very goodVery different, yeah. I'd never shove for that much as to my mind all you're going to get is the blinds and limps (if any). I could never bring myself to raise that heavily and risk that many chips when a raise to 100 or so should have the same effect. OK, if someone raises to 100-150 I may re-raise with the right hand and then I may on occasion shove that many chips in but never as a first raise.

But you're the MTT player out of the two of us so maybe it works there

[silax]

just finished 3rd for my 3rd top 10 finish of the month and mtt play is all about pushing and doubling up there is so much luck envolved and the less hands you play the less chance of getting busted by a fluke.
completly different to stt which is why a lot of good stt players can't get there heads round a simple strategy

[counterfeit]

I have to admit to being not the best MTT player but I am very good at STTs and cash poker (particularly Omaha) so I struggle with MTT strategy myself. I hate the first hour or so when it is like a game of bingo. I can't quite get to grips with the all-in fest.

I have won 2 MTTs this year, one an Omaha tourney and the other a Super Turbo Holdem that I only played because I was bored. My cash rate in MTTs is less than 1 in 10 though so I obviously have a problem and I almost certainly would have ended up in the same sort of position as Mat - playing for 2 hours and bombing out well before the bubble.

I would love some lessons in how to play MTTs - perhaps Silax is the man to teach us.

[silax]

hmm thats an interesting thought giving lessons on mtt's.
the simplest thing to do imo is sit on your hands fold,fold and more folding if you try to play poker forget it.
don't bluff and don't waste chips with non double up hands. you can make it to the bubble with 4 double ups if you can get the odds in your favour when you go for it.the chances are there.
saying that just crashed out of one today early had QQ very short stack all in someone went with him so i guesed i was almost 1v1 with it got another caller and i'm worried so we have 6,6 small stack AJ first caller QQ me and stupid sod 4th caller A5 from memory flop was --J then - and that lovely river J so i'm out very early.
good play or bad play by me well the shorty can't do any damage lets discard him 2nd guy is thinking short stack i've got an A could get a cheap few chips and i'm thinking i'm up against an A but he has to hit and if he dosen't i'm on my way to the first break (first goal) idiot 4th caller has me very worried to do this he must have high pair and i'm thinking urg. but as so many players in mtt are silly i see the hands and flop and am pleased well ahead post flop but river luck is in someone elses place and i'm out.
i see all sorts of tactics going on through a tourny and the more i play at this level the more i'm seeing platers at the final table who haven't got a clue.
Far to many players try to play poker in them like proffessionals but it can't be done. if you asked a pro to play at this level i do believe they would struggle to get anywhere because of the standard of players.
so you have to have a gameplan to take as much of the luck out of it as possible which for me is play as few hands as possible when you do play you have to be prepared to go all in or fold. don't be afraid of the big stacks they are the guys you want in a hand with you these are your double ups they are generally loose players i find again the majority of big stacks in mtt's are loose players who get lucky see how often the chip leader at first break is there at the bubble very rare.
once you make it too the bubble you sit again and wait look at the average chip stack you'll be surprized how low it is.
by this time you should be getting seen as being a tight player and can steal a few blinds to keep you going you get a lot of stealers here as well you can keep your blinds by an all in shout against the stealers. i generally always limp to the final table once there sit it out and wait for the other players to knock each other out.
one double up again on the final table is enough so pick on the chip leader to give it to you. if your still in with your double up on the final table sit it out again wait for more players to bomb out remember everyone is starting to panick with the blinds going up high and not many of the players at the final table have final table experience. if you can hold your nerve and wait for the hands knowing other players are going thats all you need to do.
well that sounds simple enough.
playing mtt's imo is not so much what you know about poker but what you know about mtt's and how many chips you need to get to a certain point. winning one hand will get you to the first break. from starting point 1500 if you make it to the break with 3k+ chips you've done well 2k is ok. next up is the bubble normally around 2nd break. it gets a bit trickier as the blinds are bigger. if you get your stack to 10k you've done extreamly well.
one double up may not be enough because of the blinds and you should need 2. if you can make the bubble with more then 6k chips thats fine there are a lot of players with more chips then you which means there are a lot more double up options.
again you set your self chip counts all the time where you don't have to play anything untill you reach a certain level.
from the bubble get to the final table same rules sit and wait i play with a few bubbles big one is the cash then if there are 40 players left next bubble is 30 players then 20 players then the final table.
best way to contorl you play on the final table is look at the cash payouts and how many players have less chips then you a couple of double ups on the final table can take you to the last 4 or 5 then blinds are so high its a crap shoot.
how's that sound then you've taken out of the game pot odds. position is still important to a degree and you've taken out as best as possible lady bad luck by playing a minimun of hands. you know which players to attack but as the rewards are high so are the losses but you're at an advantage because you have a good hand he may just have a normal go check hand.
for now this way of playing is serving its purpose i don't know if it would work at higher levels but if i can make 5 - 15 final tables a month with it thats fine by me i know from those stats i should be able to hopefully win a tourny a month and the earning will be around 1-1.5k which for me again is fine. i'm into my 3rd month of experimenting with this technique first month made the target 2nd month failed not sure why. on track again this month so lets see what happens

[silax]

well if anybody else would like to no a little more in depth drop me a pm with there e-mail addy and i'll send you a reply.
i'm pretty sure that both counter and matt know more about poker then i ever want to. in fact i'd go as far to say they have forgotton more then i know which is why i can't get anywhere playing there games cash and stt in my book there are 3 kinds of poker cash, stt and mtt all very very different but 1 thing is key to doing well in them a stratagy when you have the gameplan you then just need the discipline to see it out.
i think my biggest downfall is i don't play enough i do a lot of chatting on the tables and there is a reason for this and i'm shattered when i play for 2-3 hours.
the reason why players from stt and cash can't play mtt tells you how different they are

[counterfeit]

Strategy is so different for each discipline and also varies from player to player.

I think I have mentioned on here in the past, what my STT strategy is and it is very similar in MTTs, which I have no doubt is why I am no good at them.

Perhaps we ought to start a topic just on strategy. I am happy to share my strategies for cash and STTs. If I can help people play better Omaha then I will gladly pass on advice there too.

[silax]

ok counter i really don't mind telling people how i play as you can proberbly guess and think i've explained the jist of it above and i think you once explained your cash tourny stratergies to me before.
i've just finished another tourny where again i got busted out by an inferior hand there is nothing you can do about it and have to take the fact that in mtt to get anywhere you have to play on the edge most of the time which means when you play a hand its an all in shout. i'll explain
just after first break blind are 100/200 i've just played the blinds and i'm down to 1200 chips from a 1st break finish at just over 1500 i'm ok but know i've got to push and i'm not getting any hands one player raises to 700 it looks like a stealer guy next to him is all in and i'm thinking pair or A,kqorj so i'm happy to take the risk i win and i'm treble up just about and in back in the game. so i'm all in can't get the history up but table chip leader also follows me all in 700 raise folds as he should do and leaves 3 of us to battle it out
first guy shows AK me JJ chip ass hole A8 suited ?
now looking at the board i'm ok with my chances flop is --k which kinda screws me turn - river J which gives chip ass hole a flush.
looking back did i play the hand wrong personally with my stack so low had to play it and through luck finished ahead of the guy i thought i would have been 1v1 against but he also got lucky on the flop. chip leader should never have been in the hand but as the laws of average will even out he is the type of guy who make my tourny play successful and the kind of player i want to be in with as i'm starting ahead of him.
AK is so overated in mtt poker and its a check for me if someone goes in high depending on my chips and how high he goes its a fold if i hit i'm all in no worries.

[silax]

on another note counter i've entered the 7:30 10k freezeout on bet 365 i'll open my yahoo messenger if you're about and i'll try and tell you what i'm doing with my hands when i get them unfortunatly i've never really got anywhere in this tourny before proberbly over a 1,000 players but my rules are the same and shouldn't
affect the outcome but i struggle to get a hand for some reason and am normally busted before the first break

[counterfeit]

sorry mate - just been to the dragon-in-laws so only just read your post.

If you are gonna be playing tomorrow let me know and I'll come for a watch and a chat.

[silax]

no probs you wouldn't have seen much didn't play a hand till just before the first break and had AJ and in a fair position to steal but got busted by QQ
will proberbly be playing 2k at 10:30 tomorrow morning

[counterfeit]

I'll be watching