Maintaining focus

[mathare]

Hello, my name's Mat and I am playing some very poor poker. I need your help.

In the last few weeks I have started playing $0.10-$0.20 NLHE cash games as that was kinda the last resort for me in a way. I am confident I know enough about the game to make a profit from it. I read two poker magazines a month plus have a whole library of poker books. I don't know the game inside out but I ought to know enough to make a consistent profit - but I'm not. Fortunately I have identified my main weakness. Unfortunately I am finding it incredibly hard to address it.

The main problem I am having is one of focus. I can't focus fully on the game in hand and I am damn sure that this is costing me money.

Let me tell you a little about the setup I have when I play. I am sat at my desk in a little study. I usually have the poker table open (Bet365) plus Poker Office, my betting record spreadsheet and a web browser. In the web browser I will have the radio streaming plus the forum, probably Sporting Life's homepage and perhaps my e-mail. Notice right away how I have plenty of non-poker applications open - that can't help.

What I can't work out is whether or not I have become dependent on Poker Office to the extent that it is crippling my game. The overlay stats I display are number of hands, VPIP %, PFR % and c-bet %. I get these for each player so I don't have to think much pre-flop; I know where a player is on the loose-tight and passive-aggressive scales. Is the fact that I am not really thinking damaging my game? It means I can play multiple tables at once more easily as I automatically get a line on each player's game and can use that to guide my pre-flop decisions. But it means I am not analysing players myself so much. Each player is just reduced to a set of numbers; I hardly even look at screen names any more so I don't get familiar with any opponents really.

With one table open, and a naturally tight game (which may also not be ideal here but that's another subject) I am folding a lot of hands. And because I have Poker Office running and doing the hard work for me I find it hard to watch the hands play out after I have folded which means I often switch to surfing the web, reading the forum/e-mail etc. I am not focused on the game at all. Then when I get a marginal hand or a big decision I am immediately on the back foot. I need some form of blinkers to keep me concentrating on the game.

Any ideas anyone?

I have tried playing more tables (2 or 3) but I often find that I play well (or at least acceptably) on one table and poorly on the other. I haven't been comfortable with 3 tables necessarily but maybe I need to quickly become comfortable and minimise the downtime between playable hands and decisions by opening up more tables in an attempt to reduce the time I have to switch off from the game. The thinking here is that although this would reduce the amount of time I could concentrate on a given table it does mean that I spend more time concentrating on poker rather than reading e-mail etc. Keeping my brain in the zone, as it were.

Anyone else got any tips for maintaining focus when playing poker? Have you changed the way your PC desk is set up, for example? Do you close the door to the room in which your playing to minimise distractions? Radio or no radio?

This is really starting to bug me know as I keep having brain farts that cause me to lose a chunk of my chips and this is happening more and more. I know I am not fully dialled into the game and that bothers me. I have the technical skills and knowledge to do well enough at this game but my 'softer' skills are letting me down. I am making plays and then after losing the hand (as I inevitably do) I immediately think back and see how I should have played the hand. I am a deer caught in the headlights not a clear thinking poker machine.

[MattR]

I don't play online poker at all but it does seem to me that you've got far too much 'other' activity going on there to pay full attention. From what you are saying I would suggest trying a session with Poker Office and all other web stuff turned off completely (not sure what poker office does so maybe you need it on to record your stats - but if so minimise it so you aren't looking at it whilst playing) that way you are concentrating solely on the game unfolding and using your knowledge of the game and your decision making rather than at present where it seems you are playing on auto pilot and not concentrating properly.

Maybe do that for a week or so and compare your results?

[mathare]

I don't play online poker at all but it does seem to me that you've got far too much 'other' activity going on there to pay full attention. That's the problem exactly. Whne betting on the horses that is much more 'fire and forget' I place the bets, make sure they are matched and then I am done, till the results come in. Poker is obviously rather different.


From what you are saying I would suggest trying a session with Poker Office and all other web stuff turned off completely (not sure what poker office does so maybe you need it on to record your stats - but if so minimise it so you aren't looking at it whilst playing) that way you are concentrating solely on the game unfolding and using your knowledge of the game and your decision making rather than at present where it seems you are playing on auto pilot and not concentrating properly. Poker Office records all the stats, as you guessed, so I need that running in the background but I can minimise that without issue. I find I go mad without music though, which is why I have radio streaming when I play. Maybe I should switch to using a proper radio rather than internet radio, or playing mp3s via Winamp rather than using the radio as that will eliminate the need for me to have a web browser open and thus reduce that temptation. Hmmm.

One thing I did think of trying was getting a second monitor and having one table on each. Then I don't have to Alt-Tab between windows and can move my head to watch a different table. This would surely help my concentration as I can effectively watch two games at once. But it would mean a new monitor and a new graphics card so around £150 I guess which is a potentially expensive way of trying to fix the problem. Yes, I know my poker losses could be more than that but if the second screen doesn't help then I have 'wasted' £150 or whatever.

[MattR]

I find I go mad without music though, which is why I have radio streaming when I play. Maybe I should switch to using a proper radio rather than internet radio, or playing mp3s via Winamp rather than using the radio as that will eliminate the need for me to have a web browser open and thus reduce that temptation. Hmmm..

Yes that would make sense to have it on winamp or something similar. I know I like to have music on too and I find it can actually help you to focus on what you are doing. I remember I often used to do my school homework with headphones on listening to music.




One thing I did think of trying was getting a second monitor and having one table on each. Then I don't have to Alt-Tab between windows and can move my head to watch a different table. This would surely help my concentration as I can effectively watch two games at once.

Interesting comment that Mat, did you notice that as soon as you thought about removing other activities you wanted to have a second game going on at the same time. Maybe this is part of the problem? Could it be that you feel that you need a lot of stuff going on to keep your attention?

[mathare]

Interesting comment that Mat, did you notice that as soon as you thought about removing other activities you wanted to have a second game going on at the same time. Maybe this is part of the problem? Could it be that you feel that you need a lot of stuff going on to keep your attention?I have major concentration issues whatever I am doing; I know that and it's something I have to deal with. I need to keep myself interested and in the zone in order to finish a task, any task. If my mind wanders then I am screwed, pretty much. My HDD is cluttered with good ideas I have started working on until something more fun came along.

While ideally I should be concentrating on one table and one table alone I know I cannot do that. I'd get up from the PC, wander, reorder my bookshelves something like that between hands. That's why I thought about adding more tables to the point where I have no choice but to focus on at least one of them at any one time; deny myself the time to do anything else.

[counterfeit]

Mat - I need to read this properly but my daughter (she's 5) is doing a drama and English workshop presentation this afternoon so I will try to put up a proper response this evening or tomorrow. I may be able to help as cash is my area (i am a very average tournament player).

[counterfeit]

I've typed this into Notepad as I am thinking it could be quite long and take me a few attempts to finish, so here goes.

Firstly, I should like you to note that my biggest problem in life in general has always been focussing and committing until a job is finished (my wife despairs as did my mother for so many years). When I told my wife I wanted to play poker for a living she laughed for about 5 minutes before becoming horrified at the thought of me doing something that involved concentration at which point she started crying.

I had to prove to her that I could muster the discipline to do it. In order to do that she made me take a 5 minute break every hour and record on Excel my starting and closing bank (it was before I got Poker Office or my other software). Also, I had to either get a drink or go to the toilet. Then, after 3 hours (when I started I did 3 lots of 3 hour shifts) I took a 20 minute break to read emails, web surfing, etc. She took a week off work to keep an eye on me.

At the time I was using a desktop and playing 2 tables at Party Poker. This was in my study.

It is now 4 years on and I use my laptop (17" screen) with a separate 20 inch screen and I have poker open on the laptop and my other "crap" on the screen. Also, I now work in the living room with either music or TV on in the background.

It's been a long 4 years and now I have the discipline to do whatever I want because I know my priority has to be my poker.

My advice to you is to follow the following disciplines and always bear in mind the most important factor of all, i.e. you will never make serious money from poker if you do not have incredible patience (you know as well as anyone that what you see on TV is very edited highlights - we do not see the hours of folding).

1. Take regular breaks - at least 1 minutes every two hours even if it is just to make a coffee, wlk around the garden, have a fag etc.

2. Turn your phone off unless you are expecting an urgent call (in which case don't play poker).

3. Leave emails off.

4. Listen to music or do whatever you need to help relax. For me, it's music, for some it's smoking but in order to focus I have my Ipod on shuffle.

5. Only web surf during your allotted breaks.

6. Do not mix games, e.g don't play NLHE cash alongside Omaha or tourneys until you can cope with the change in mindset.

7. For at least a week play just 1 table at a time and force yourself to follow the other disciplines. After that, progress to more tables. By this time focussing should be easier. I wouldn't try to use more tables as a way to focus for the simple reason that if you can't focus properly on more tables you will just magnify your losses.

8. The best and for me the ultimate focus was to play at a level I was uncomfortable with. It forces you to concentrate so much harder. I started with .10/.25 tables but played the .50/1 tables in order to improve both my game and my concentration levels. If you think it's hard to focus then put yourself in a position where your losses will hurt. It is a great remedy for a slack mind.

9. For me, Poker Office improved my game no end and believe it or not made me concentrate more because I was then able to randomly pick on tight/passive players. If I wasn't focussed I would only play my hands according to position and my cards but Poker Office showed me the best people to bluff against. If you don't concentrate you will only pick up on when and who to defend against. Half of profitable poker is about who to bully.

I am fairly certain there will be other things you can do but you know you have an issue so you need to address the issues properly if you want to make decent money.

[bigcumba]

I'm not even a poker player, but that was a superb post Counterfeit, and I'm sure Mat will find it very useful. Just shows what is possible with the right attitude and mindset, and a lot of hard work!

[counterfeit]

I'm not even a poker player, but that was a superb post Counterfeit, and I'm sure Mat will find it very useful. Just shows what is possible with the right attitude and mindset, and a lot of hard work!

Cheers - I do poker advice and in return Mat does my Excel for me. It's a good system. this site is one great big love in.::hump

[bigcumba]

this site is one great big love in.::hump

you don't know the half of it, you should see the goings on in the mods tearoom on a Friday night... :yikes: :laugh

[mathare]

Just to second BigC's praise for your post Counterfeit - thank you! It's very well written and contains a lot of good advice. I'm going to read it all a few times over the next few days to make sure I have taken it all in.

I don't actually play that often (2-3 times a week) so when you say play 1 table for a week I will probably do so for longer, maybe 2 weeks, to make sure I have had plenty of sessions for the changes in routine to settle in and take proper effect. Very welcome advice though - just what I wanted :thumbs

[counterfeit]

You're welcome Mat (sorry couldn't resist)

One thing I didn't really say in my post was that there is nothing that focusses the mind better than the thought of losing several thousand dollars due to a lack of concentration.

That's one of the reasons why playing at the lower levels is horrendously difficult for me. I try it occassionally thinking it might be an easy way to win some beer money but I almost always donk off a load of dollars thinking I won't get called by marginal hands. The problem being of course that losing $10 or $20 is meaningless so I play recklessly and don't concentrate properly.

[mathare]

One thing I didn't really say in my post was that there is nothing that focusses the mind better than the thought of losing several thousand dollars due to a lack of concentration.This is one thing I did find very interested, and something I have wondered about in the past. Thus far I have been reluctant to step outside my comfort zone on the basis that if I can't get it right on low stakes tables why increase the steps and ramp up my losses? But am I playing a poor game because the money involved means nothing? When I sit down at my usual tables I have $20 on the table, which is about £12.50 these days. My minimum stake when laying is £2 which means a losing bet at my cutoff of 11.0 will cost me £20 and I will hardly bat an eyelid at that. I think this is the difference between gambling I can influence (poker) and that I can't (horse racing). I take losses more personally when they are entirely my fault.

In recent sessions I have lost a lot of chips when someone has been playing some rather unexpected hand to the river and ends up beating me. I had one the other day where I was playing poorly but lost a lot more than I perhaps should have done because of how the other fella played it. I had a crappy starting hand like T7o (so was probably the small blind). I hit top pair on the flop and had a chance at a backdoor straight draw (and yes, I do know this is basically worthless as I need runner-runner). I bet, got a call. I fired again on the blank turn and again I got a call. Same on the river. Did I think I was ahead? I didn't have a clue, if I am honest. I thought he'd paired part of the flop but hadn't caught two pair or anything like that. I guess I thought I was up against lower pair with a better kicker (so he'd played A8o or similar). No - I was up against a flopped set of 5s, but at no time did he raise - not even on the river. Was he playing scared, fearing a higher set, or just badly? I can't decide but at that point I did wonder if I am playing with too much knowledge for the rest of the table. Am I reading too much into their play? Do I need to dumb down my thinking somewhat? For that reason I considered stepping up the stakes.

I think the sensible thing to do is to bring in the new routine on the same tables as I play at present, just to minimise the cost of errors while I change my ways. But quite quickly (within a couple of weeks) I should probably step up a level to $0.25/$0.50 and hopefully improve my game my risking sums that mean a little bit more. I am not ready to sit down with $100 at $0.50/$1 but half of that is probably OK for me. At least to see how it goes anyway.

[John]

Mat,

I'll leave out the advice on your poker environment until I have more time, as I have a couple of points to add that you may find useful.

But I've never been able to relate so closely to what someone's experiencing as I can in your above post. Let me explain. Lately has been bad for me. Very bad. To the point where I'm actually trying to behave half-donkeyishly because that seems to be the general vibe of the tournaments I enter. They're nothing special, they cost $6.50 and they take roughly an hour 'n' 'arf to complete, if I win (45 entrants). But winning is rare. Final table is somewhat infrequent. I would say mostly I finish between 11th and 20th.

So I feel like I'm in much the same boat as you in that I can't fathom out why I'm not cashing in these more often. I'm doing everything right (I'd think), but because I've recently been more scared about busting out early, I'm not taking pots down so well. Or at least I'm shaking like a leaf when I try to. So do I rack up my levels? Do I pay double or treble the $6.50 to enter tournaments where my mind might be more at that level? Because I feel like a lot of the time I'm thinking at that level of play, mentally. I've played a couple of the $12 ones and literally in a couple, I have seen improvements in the standard of play. Often I see I've folded better hands and then I see the person I folded to wins with Ace-high AQ that he couldn't let go of having missed the flop. Should I start playing STTs again? I had a good spell at them that went wrong so I stopped. Maybe I should give them another chance. But I sometimes feel like I'm out-thinking my opponents, and thinking too much at the table. Certain scenarios worry me such as when the tourney is in its early days - someone raises, they get 4 or 5 callers and the flop is something like 4 8 2... and the betting is a bit crazy and I'm holding AJ or something... it's difficult to predict what to do. Is the betting crazy because some people have weak hands and are trying to narrow the numbers down? If so that could be dangerous. Is the betting crazy because someone has top pair? Why are certain people betting? What half-crap have they played pre-flop to make a post-flop hand playable on a 4 8 2 flop? It worries me. So more often than not unless I have something, or a strongish draw, I fold. But then more often than not I feel like this makes me a weak player. I also think that the other players can read my mind. Hope I haven't gone off on too much of a tangent but I just feel like I'm experiencing some of the same things you are.

I enjoy playing cash tables... I've done 'ok' at them.

You're very right to ask questions regarding why your opponent didn't raise with trip 5's. Maybe he thought you had the better hand, so maybe he thought, 'if I raise, he'll fold'. Or maybe he's just an unconfident or bad player.

[mathare]

So I feel like I'm in much the same boat as you in that I can't fathom out why I'm not cashing in these more often. I'm doing everything right (I'd think), but because I've recently been more scared about busting out early, I'm not taking pots down so well. Or at least I'm shaking like a leaf when I try to. Lack of confidence can be a real problem, especially when you're on an extended losing run as can happen when you play tourney poker. Unless you're playing STTs you're effectively backing a low SR, high odds system. When you win you win big but mostly you lose. The more players in the tourney the lower the SR and the bigger the eventual payout. But a lack of confidence can lower the SR further as you chicken out of pushing marginal situations. One thing I will say is that you shouldn't fear busting out early. Easy for me to say I know. What you need to do is remember that busting out first and bubbling result in the same payout - nothing. But while you shouldn't fear busting out don't go looking for a reason to bust out. Play your normal game, putting your opponents on hand ranges and compare that range to your hand and your likely equity. Don't be afraid of some coin flips and push your edges and you'll do better.


So do I rack up my levels? Do I pay double or treble the $6.50 to enter tournaments where my mind might be more at that level? Because I feel like a lot of the time I'm thinking at that level of play, mentally. If you ask me I'd say no. If you're lacking the confidence to at least cash in the cheaper tourneys then paying $20 is just going to be a waste of money. Concentrate on improving your play and decision making in the cheaper events first. Work on your reads and putting opponents on hand ranges. Narrow down the ranges as the hand progresses and if you see cards at showdown you can see how right/wrong you were and use that to fine tune your skills. You'll get thrown off by opponents playing crazily and often you'll just go "WTF?!" but it will help. And you'll make mistakes but this way you'll make them more cheaply and it will stand you in good stead later on as you move up the levels.


Should I start playing STTs again? I had a good spell at them that went wrong so I stopped. Maybe I should give them another chance.Personally I can't play MTTs as I don't like the mental side of playing for hours for no reward, as is the usual case. I prefer STTs or cash games (I play cash only now) as I can dip in and out more easily so it suits my lifestyle and I am getting regular (but smaller) returns. Only you really know what suits you but there is no reason why you can't play STTs and MTTs if you can properly swap into the correct mindset each time you play.


Certain scenarios worry me such as when the tourney is in its early days - someone raises, they get 4 or 5 callers and the flop is something like 4 8 2... and the betting is a bit crazy and I'm holding AJ or something... it's difficult to predict what to do. Is the betting crazy because some people have weak hands and are trying to narrow the numbers down? If so that could be dangerous. Is the betting crazy because someone has top pair? Why are certain people betting? What half-crap have they played pre-flop to make a post-flop hand playable on a 4 8 2 flop? It worries me. So more often than not unless I have something, or a strongish draw, I fold. In this case it's a definite fold. If there are that many callers and you have just Ace high on that sort of flop then just get out the way of any serious action. The blinds are small compared to your stack so by folding you're not losing much. If you play a hand too long, regardless of the blinds and stack sizes, you can get into serious trouble. A pot sized bet on each street can soon half your stack if you're not careful. And with no-limit you can get put all-in and go bust in the early levels too, without that much of an overbet. Best fold. Why are your opponents getting carried away on this board of rags? Because they have something - real or perceived. With AJ on a 4 8 2 board you have Ace high. You're losing to any 4, 8 or 2. There are straight draws too - inside and open-ended - so maybe your opponents have a draw. At the end of the day though you've missed it completely and in the face of strong action you should fold. Is that weak? No! You took a flyer pre-flop and missed. Never mind, move on. If you think you're folding too many hands on the flop when you miss then it's likely to be because you're taking a chance on too many pre-flop hands with too many opponents. You should be raising more with strong hands/position to reduce the number of opponents else tightening up a bit even if you're in a limpfest as someone out there will have a decent hand when the flop comes down and there are 6 players still in.

I think I probably have gone off on a tangent but never mind, I started this thread so I can do what I want :)

[Street cry]

Hi Mat,
I use to play limit hold em at relatively low level £5/£10 on william hill, i did it when i use to have ajob every night to bump my wages up. I use to stop when i won £20 and that could mean one good pot at the start of the session or toughing it out in to the early hours. That was the wrong thing to do and after awhile i allotted myself a time frame of 2 hours and it actually improved my results.

Playing poker is similar to alot of things and it is similar to ehat i do all day ie trading currencies and a bit of nag trading. I would certainly subscribe to the scale theory in that larger increments sharpen your perceptions and ensure you operate with full care and consistencey. This can have detremental effects once you get to amounts you are uncomfortable with, ie you have great pot odds but fold as the amounts involve scare you. Finding somewhere in between helps. I find that with low amounts on horse trading i can be very blasais yet as i am highly leveraged on oanda i must carry out every trade with 100% efficiencey .

I can't really help you anymore than others have but i would deem enviromental consistencey as being imperitive and the biggest killer to your performance probably being boredom. When i played limit i played to the odds and therefore took no active role in any hands i folded preflop. Obviously if you are looking to get aread on the players you will be wanting to watch the action of every hand but i use to read abook while i was not involved in the hand.
Must say your perseverance is admirable and the fact that you are constantly looking to improve every area of your performance will surely see apositive outcome for you, i certainly hope so

[mathare]

Are those figures right SC? Playing £5/10 limit you used to stop when you were £20 ahead? Just 2 big blinds in a session? Seems rather conservative to me but it's been a while since I played limit poker

[Street cry]

Yes Mat,
That's Right i use to finish work till 10.00 pm so wanted to make what i could as quick as i could so i could get to bed . Sometimes i would win a big pot in my first few hands so iw ould be up more than that and sometimes i had to call it a day with some sort of loss hence me deciding to change to 2 hours play. My playing in those days was all about necessity and therefore my approach to what i wanted to win was based around low expectation and playing when the odds favoured me .

[counterfeit]

Mat,

So do I rack up my levels? Do I pay double or treble the $6.50 to enter tournaments where my mind might be more at that level? Because I feel like a lot of the time I'm thinking at that level of play, mentally.


John

This isn't particularly sensible advice but this is what I did. I was playing MTTs at a fairly low level (under $10) and having no success and kept getting beat by what I considered to be donkeys. So, as I was winning decent money at cash and STTs I decided to enter a $50 MTT. I did ok but didn't cash. But, I learnt something valuable which was that I was playing a much better standard than the $10 and below bingo callers MTTs. The other thing I learnt was that the $50 was slightly out of my depth at that stage (now I realise that I am just not a great MTT player).

I never played any of those low level MTTs again. I do still play freerolls as satellites for bigger tourneys and treat it for what it is.

I hardly ever play MTTs now though I do still play at the casino 2 or 3 times a week and cash about 1 in 3 which makes a nice profit.

[John]

"Bingo callers" :laugh That's exactly what they are, and a nice turn of phrase!

Thanks a lot for the advice Counterfeit, it helps a lot.

I really need to rethink about what I'm doing.

I have actually thought, in the past week - poker isn't for me. A few weekends ago I said I was going to quit completely, and I withdrew all my money and stopped. But within a few hours I was back on the tables as I thought to myself "I cannot be defeated." But since I have been 'back on the tables' since then, things haven't really improved. They peaked, I made profit because I was determined 'not to be defeated' and I kept getting dealt good cards and did well. Then I lost all the profit I'd made that week. I'm really starting to wonder what the core reason is behind it all. Maybe it is just the type of games I play though.

As I said, time to rethink and regroup... thanks again.

[counterfeit]

Well, poker isn't for everyone. I do think that you need to be dedicated to it in order to play it to a level that will make consistent profits. If you aren't bothered about profit then it is a fun game to play for enjoyment. Sometimes, I don't enjoy myself which makes it feel like a job. This is very occassional but I never feel like throwing it in, mainly because I need the money.

If you aren't making money but also aren't bothered about profit then maybe try playing a few freerolls for enjoyment. If you don't enjoy yourself I would consider taking a break or giving up.

[John]

If you aren't making money but also aren't bothered about profit then maybe try playing a few freerolls for enjoyment. If you don't enjoy yourself I would consider taking a break or giving up.

That's pretty much it. I am bothered about losing money and I'm serious about the game, I enjoy playing it so the enjoyment factor is definitely there. Maybe a break is what I need but I don't think it will solve the problem. I think part of the problem, frankly, is some of the idiots that I play with.

Oh, and I just watched Casino Royale. Nobody would be dumb enough to play 5-7s pre-flop to a raise followed by two re-raises. Nobody except James Bond of course. :lickme Good film though! :thumbs

[counterfeit]

Oh, and I just watched Casino Royale. Nobody would be dumb enough to play 5-7s pre-flop to a raise followed by two re-raises. Nobody except James Bond of course. :lickme Good film though! :thumbs

You are so wrong there:D

This is why you keep losing. That's exactly the sort of idiotic play you have been talking about.

You definitely need to to get into the mindset of low level players or start playing at a higher level. The majority are really, really bad players so you need to expect them to play any two cards, whatever the pre-flop action.

I'm not saying you should play scared or assume you are always beat but don't believe everyone will play sensible ABC poker. Get Poker Office working out these idiots for you. It really should save you a lot of money.

[mathare]

Oh, and I just watched Casino Royale. Nobody would be dumb enough to play 5-7s pre-flop to a raise followed by two re-raises. Nobody except James Bond of course. :lickme Good film though! :thumbsI had private lessons with one of the guys who acted as poker consultant on that film. His teachings are much better than the poker in the film, which I swear is flawed. On that last hand I don't think Bond has Le Chiffre covered so Le Chiffre should still have chips I reckon.

[John]

Yeah I know what you mean C... I guess if I'm paying six dollars to enter a tournament I should expect to be playing with poor players. But then spending $20 or $30 on a tournament scares the living daylights out of me.

I've actually come to a decision anyway. I'm going to play:

80% Cash games
20% (or less) STTs - either 6 or 9-seated.

I'll let you know how I get on. I feel I can mix and match both, with the STTs an infrequent gamble.

[counterfeit]

John

I have a poker bot that plays flawless ABC poker but I can't use it at low level STTs as it gets beaten by Kermit and the rest of the Muppets.

It works ok at 10 and 20 dollar tourneys (so I know it's not the bot) but there's no way I'd leave my life in the hands of a robot for that much money.

The point being that if a poker bot that plays perfectly can't beat the low level games then you need to adapt to their level of idiocy in order to win.

[Mavrick]

Without a doubt, when your opponents are aweful it is very difficult to make money as your raises are more to thin the field then they are for value betting. When I moved from Ladbrokes to the ongame network to get rakeback the players were so bad it was unbelievable yet the only money I was making was the rakeback. The only way I found to get into profit was to double my buy-in but, then I was out of my comfort zone. I'm now back at ladbrokes whilst I wait for confirmation that I've signed up for paradise rakeback correctly before I make my first deposit as Nextpoker have now merged with betfriends and I can no longer get rakeback and it is back to profitable playing as the quality of player at Ladbrokes is much better.

If I was you John I would have a go at Ladbrokes to get your confidence back as it is almost certainly not your game letting you down but, your opposition not doing what they should be doing.

[counterfeit]

I suppose it's obvious but the larger the site the worse the standard of player.

Betfair is a very good standard these days but Full Tilt is just about the largest donk fest you've ever seen. Ultimate Bet is ok for a big site, Ladbrokes is quite good. I hate Pacific (mainly a graphics issue). PKR is good but very small.

[andy000223]

Firstly i just scanned through the thread so if i miised anything then i appoligise.I am a succesful poker player or at least i was until i quit a couple of months ago because you need to be seriously commited to poker to make any kind of money nowadays, but it al depends on what kind of level you want to play at.

Advice 1. PATIENCE=You must have patience,and i mean MUST if patience is not in your nature then dont play.

2 DISIPLINE=1 Bad hand can lose you 3 hr's of hard playing profit's.

Patience and disipline are the 2 most important factors for any serious poker player..IMO

As for doing other thing's while playing poker then it all depends on the nature of that person,e.g if he is an impatience person then i recomend they do other things while playing to take there mind from wandering and becoming wreckless,if you have patience then i recomend you watch the game hard..

YOU MUST KNOW YOURSELF INSIDE OUT BEFORE YOU TRY AND PLAY SERIOUS POKER,YOU HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO CONTROL YOU IMPULSES,YOU MUST STUDY YOURSELF!!!

can i ask what are your goals for poker? how much time are you spending daily playing and studying poker? how much experience do you have?

Hope i can help you improve you game somehow

Andrew..

[John]

Thanks guys.

I used to play at Ladbrokes but the reason I stopped using it was because Poker Tracker didn't support it. I used to do quite well on Lads though.

You're very correct on what you say about Full Tilt. My workmate joined, said it was full of donks and he was making money really easily, so I decided to give it a go. It went quite well for a while because I'd discovered somewhere new and decided to make it a fresh start. But 3 months down the line and I hated it more than ever because for me it was an absolute donk fest. There's me playing what I would call "proper" poker and getting truly burnt when 9/10 times I had the better hand. I currently play at Pokerstars, which again is a donkfestation but I've been doing better there.

Sidetracking, I've decided to up the ante. Whether or not this is a good idea I don't know but I'm very much wiling to financially pay my way, at least for maybe 30-50 games or so as a test because I'm really interested in seeing the outcome. Plus I'm putting myself out of my comfort zone and I know if I don't cash I'll be hurt. So today I have played:

1 x $13 6-seated STT - 2nd
3 x $16 9-seated STT - 2nd, 4th, 2nd

I know it's very early days but I've gotten off to a good start, cashing 3 times out of 4. I'm intending to continue playing at this level provided I keep cashing. If it turns out to go pear shaped and I'm outplayed by better players then so be it - but I want to take on this experience to actually find out otherwise I'll never know. Already the standard is better though and I'm compelled to give every game my full attention, playing one table at a time, trying to make really good decisions. Time will tell how it goes. If it doesn't work, fine by me, I'll do something else but for now I feel I really have to find out whether it's my decision-making that's costing me my money, or the standard of the opposition.

[markwales]

An excellent thread with some great posts.

Will mull over it all and post my thoughts later.

I'm a winning player that doesn't use any tracking software, any HUD's, any spreadsheets, have 2 kids screaming and am usually drinking lager (when kids in bed)!!! For me, surroundings aren't an issue.

[bigcumba]

For me, surroundings aren't an issue.

So you'd be able to concentrate on 'poker' from the pool at the Playboy Mansion then Mark? :D

[crazybadger]

whoops forgot to mention something about this. I find I'm very much the same - I cant really seem to focus for long when just staring at screen for poker.

The only tip I suggest (which I try to do) is to talk to yourself. Verbalise absolutely everything you are thinking about the poker game. Make it one big conversation with yourself. I find it helps me think things through and when I say "oh Player X slow played that set" I remember it next time more often when I actually said it aloud.

[mathare]

That's not a bad idea actually CB. may make you sound like your mental but I can see that working.

Still not been back to the tables to apply any of these suggestions yet, by the way. Been too busy on another project...

[counterfeit]

C'mon then - spill the beans

[mathare]

C'mon then - spill the beansWho? What? Eh? :doh

[John]

Been too busy on another project...

Think s'wot he meant. :wink

[mathare]

Think s'wot he meant. :winkI did wonder. It's nowt that exciting so I wasn't sure. It's only a bit of coding, system development, various improvements to odd bits of software I have written in the past - that sort of thing. Some of it is just a favour for a friend really.

[counterfeit]

You made it sound so exciting.:party

Way more exciting though than a maths question:killer

[mathare]

You made it sound so exciting.:partySorry. It's not that exciting, unless you're a code geek like me in which case it is quite exciting. But in reality it's really only some of the stuff I have had on my 'to do' list for months and things I should have been doing when I was playing poker over the last few weeks.