1st Go

[MattR]

Well, after all the poker chat on here recently I finally decided to dip my toe in the water and have a play. Played a cash lobby game on betfair earlier and got my $10 up to $16 so then I piled into an $0.11 NL holdem tournament and camee 4th out of 9.

Actually I'm quite enjoying it! Will ease into it nice and slow and with small stakes.

[mathare]

Will ease into it nice and slow and with small stakes.That's both a good and bad thing to do, actually. Good - make your inevitable mistakes as cheaply as possible. Bad - you'll probably actually pick up some bad habits, either because the poor play doesn't cost you much in financial terms or because you're adjusting your play to the standard of the muppets you're playing with.

Once you have the mechanics of the game cracked I'd step it up a little if I were you.

Were are you playing, by the way? And what's your background when it comes to poker? Complete beginner, a novice who knows the theory but hasn't practiced online, a kitchen table player, other?

[MattR]

Thanks for the advice Mat. Have certainly seen some strange plays already. One guy (the chip leader with 7 still in the game) going all in on A3, another guy went all in on AJ and with incredible luck for the chip leader out came 56789 !

Just played another game and finished 7th of 9, pretty unlucky with it I thought. I had AA, staked about a quarter of my chips, two players called. The flop was Q5Q, one folded and the other raised 500. I thought, hmm does he have a Queen then so I called (maybe wrongly?) Anyway next card was a 3 and this time he just checked. So I thought ok you don't have a queen then, possibly a 5 for two pairs. I raised again and he called which I felt confirmed my thoughts. Next card up, you guessed it , a 5!

On the muppet theme just started a new game and someone went all in first hand on 87 :doh 787J3 came up, can you believe that! :headbange


As to my experience with it, just I guess pretty much a novice who knows the basic theory and has played with friends/family from time to time over the years.

[counterfeit]

I love a new recruit - welcome to the weird, wonderful and sometimes profitable world of poker.

Just as a piece of advice - there are some absolute idiots playing poker on Betfair. A higher percentage than elsewhere, simply because they already have money in their account.

The higher levels are fantastic quality but there aren't many players. You can definitely milk the lower levels.

[MattR]

Thanks CF, all advice welcome.


Just finished 5th in the next one, started the hand with around 1000 chips, had two 5's and a flop of 6J5 only to be undone on the river with a 6 and an all in bet from a player with a pair of 6's leaving me with just 50 chips left.

[MattR]

CF or anyone, could you run through what the various tournament abbreviations mean on the betfair tourneys. Some I can work out but things like the Double to nothing and deep stack? Buy in I assume means you can buy back into the tournament? Is that just once or more? The turbo part I assume just means the time to make your decision is shorter.

[counterfeit]

Matt - I can do this tomorrow but in the meantime if you double click on the tourney name it will open a window. In that window it shows the starting chips, rebuys and time of blinds. Turbo doesn't necessarily mean a shorter time to decide - it's more likely to mean shorter blind levels.

[mathare]

CF or anyone, could you run through what the various tournament abbreviations mean on the betfair tourneys. Some I can work out but things like the Double to nothing and deep stack? Buy in I assume means you can buy back into the tournament? Is that just once or more? The turbo part I assume just means the time to make your decision is shorter.I don't have Betfair poker but I'll run through the common tourney types for you:

STT - single-table tournament; starts whenever the table fills up and usually pays the top 3 (in a 9-seater or 10-seater event, top 2 in a 6-seater)
MTT - multi-table tournament; starts at a scheduled time. As the name suggests there are many tables happening at once all serving to reduce the number of players to one final table. Top 10% or so are usually paid out.
SnG - Sit-n-Go, see STT
Freezeout - last man standing event. The winner has to get all the chips. You get chips for your initial buy-in and once you lose them you're out for good.
Rebuy - once you lose your chips you can pay more to get more chips and have another go. These often lead to very loose play as people take the view that if they lose a hand they can always rebuy so it doesn't really matter. Only available when your stack is smaller than a set level (usually the initial stack)
Add-on - available at the break in some tourneys; like a rebuy but is limited to 1 per player and doesn't depend on stack size
House fee - all tourneys will have a house fee, so the tourney may cost $15+1 to enter. The $15 goes into the prize pool to be split amongst the winners, the poker room pockets the $1, called the house fee, in return for running the game. It's the tourney equivalent to the rake
Buy-in - the amount that goes into the prize pool, so the $15 from the above example
Deep stack - sometimes called high stack tourneys. You start with more chips than normal, probably double the number of chips compared to a normal event. These tourneys allow more skilled play, apparently, as the stacks are bigger and it doesn't descend into a push-fold game so quickly
Double or nothing - aka 10 pays 5 or double up amongst other things. An STT where 10 players enter and 5 get paid. The top 5 finishers all get the same payout, twice the buy-in.
Turbo - aka speed events. Your time to act is reduced to maybe half of what it would be in a standard tourney
Jackpot tourneys - win X of these STTs in a row and you win a cash bonus too, but the house fee is higher (they have to fund the jackpot somehow)
Bubble - the last unpaid finishing position, e.g. 4th in a 10-seater STT

A few general terms thrown in there too as an added bonus

[mathare]

Turbo doesn't necessarily mean a shorter time to decide - it's more likely to mean shorter blind levels.Good point, the levels will be much shorter. So blinds rise quicker and stacks get shorter (in terms of number of big blinds) which means this becomes gambling far quicker than a normal poker tourney. By which I mean the skill factor is soon dominated by the luck factor.

[counterfeit]

If you want to truly test yourself in a tourney go for one that has extended blind levels. I used to play in one on VC that had 30 minute blinds and was a deep stack. It used to take about 6 hours to complete but it was a $10k guaranteed so was worth playing.

[MattR]

Thanks guys, much appreciated :thumbs

[John]

Good work Matt, I'll watch your progress with interest. :wink

A few more terms I'd like clarifying if anyone knows (I could use Google but I need sleep...)

"He's got runner runner" - does this mean something like: FLOP - 345 and he's holding A7? Runner runner to the inside straight draw i.e. any 2 or any 6 and he hits his straight?

"Gutshot"

"Check mark" e.g. "Demidov with the check mark"

I should probably know these already... but I don't...

Ta / :)

[MattR]

A $2.50 +$0.25 and A 2nd place and my first tournament winnings with a $6 win :wiggle:


Absolute King of the Muppets at the table as well. Chip leader with over 6000 after an incredibly lucky 78 all in that saw him hit a full house at the expense of a poor guy with AQ :ermmm Then he twice went all in with his 6000 chips in two seperate hands against players with under 1000 chips both times with crap hands and let them both back in the game, one of whom was the eventual winner. Finally the muppets luck ran out and another stupid all in lost him all his chips.

[counterfeit]

"He's got runner runner" - does this mean something like: FLOP - 345 and he's holding A7? Runner runner to the inside straight draw i.e. any 2 or any 6 and he hits his straight?

"Gutshot"

"Check mark" e.g. "Demidov with the check mark"


Ta / :)

Your description of runner runner was correct for Gutshot.

Runner runner is:

flop comes 42Q. You are holding AJ. next two cards come 10, K to give you a straight. That's runner runner. And your opponent probably flopped trip 4s. :)

Check mark - no idea. I've never heard of it. Check Dark I've heard of.

[mathare]

Yeah, gutshot is an inside straight draw. You have four to the straight but the missing card is one of the middle three. For example, You hold A5 and the board comes 2-3-8. You're missing the 4 for the straight so you have a gutshot straight draw.

You can also get double gutshots aka double belly buster straight draws. These are equivalent to open-ended straight draws in terms of odds and outs. For example, you hold A-J and the board has come Q-T-8. Any K or 9 completes the straight.

As counterfeit says, runner-runner is needing two cards (the turn and river) to make your hand. So a three-flush or three-straight on the flop, the turn gives you the flush/straight draw and the river completes the hand.

Check mark I assume has come from watching poker on TV. American coverage often uses it to show the viewers who has the winning hand once the river is down. They put a tick next to his hole cards on the screen to show he can't be beaten (unless he folds and gives the pot away).

Can't say I've really heard of check dark. Checking in the dark or checking blind - yes. That's just acting before the next card(s) have been dealt to the board. So the player first to act after the flop could check the turn blind, which means regardless of what card comes up he's checked.

[counterfeit]

I play a lot of live tourneys and there are several players who just utter the words "check dark". I live in Yorkshire though so the full "I'm checking in the dark" is far too much like stringing a sentence together. :D

[mathare]

I live in Yorkshire though so the full "I'm checking in the dark" is far too much like stringing a sentence together. :DTrue, true :)

[counterfeit]

why do it though? I've never understood it.

[mathare]

why do it though? I've never understood it.I've done it a few times in live play (the only time you can do it as online software prevents it) just to fluster a less experienced opponent. It puts them on the back foot as they don't understand what you have just done and why. I find they are too busy querying whether or not you can do it to concentrate on the hand properly.

Some players do it because they have seen it on TV so assume that because it's one of things the pro players do it makes them look better than they are. Poker is already a game of incomplete information so why deny yourself the opportunity to take full advantage of all the information that is available by acting before you know what card is turned up? It's a pretty stupid move.

[MattR]

This playing in dollars lark really highlights how crap the pound is! Costing a few pence more each day to enter :laugh

[John]

Thanks guys.

So now I know what runner runner is, can you also have runner gutshot? I don't see why not.

Check mark is something I saw on TV, yeah. I thought that's what it meant - that the player with the check mark is ahead... but this isn't limited only to the river I don't think is it?

Checking in the dark sounds quite peculiar!

I know what you mean Matt about playing in dollar mode... if I deposit X amount into my poker account I get bugger all dollars out of it! A £50 deposit used to give me about $95 whereas now it's about $75, maybe a little over.

[MattR]

I'm sure it evens out and we only remember the worst cases, but these bloody river cards are doing me in today! Twice I've had straights, one 10>A and lost to two same suit cards coming out on the turn and river to make three with players holding the other two. :headbange

[mathare]

So now I know what runner runner is, can you also have runner gutshot? I don't see why not.You'll never hear runner mentioned unless it is runner runner. After all runner just effectively means you're on a draw, so someone will say they're on a draw (flush draw, open-ended straight draw etc.) You can have runner runner gutshot but no-one would bother mentioning this I wouldn't say because it's worth very little.


Check mark is something I saw on TV, yeah. I thought that's what it meant - that the player with the check mark is ahead... but this isn't limited only to the river I don't think is it?I think it is limited to the river because before then they tend to quote percentages. Player A has an 80% chance of winning, Player B has 20%. Only when one player is 100% to win will they get the check mark.

[John]

Thanks Mat. On TV, actually watching the percentages change, both pre and post-flop is really interesting. I find it could really help my game. I haven't used Pokerstove nearly enough so that is what I'm going to get hold of. Certain common cases of hand battles such as QQ against AK or AJ - it's worth remembering the percentages of these.

Maybe it isn't a bad idea to make a chart I can keep on my desk so I know where I stand if my read is correct.

[mathare]

Certain common cases of hand battles such as QQ against AK or AJ - it's worth remembering the percentages of these.Generally speaking, a pair against two overcards (any two overcards) is roughly 50-50. Just knowing that is useful. But the chart of percentages to keep by the PC isn't a bad idea at all.

[MattR]

I had AJ 4 times in the space of 30 mins last night playing in the cash lobby and was frustratingly beaten every time without even really getting past the turn. One went down to the river which was really the only one I lost money on though so from that side of things it wasn't too bad. Two hands after my fourth AJ had produced no luck. The player to my right had AJ and won with a pair of Jacks! :laugh Can't complain though as the hand afterwards I had a straight which another player evidently had too from the betting only for a nothing card to come out on the river as regards the straight but being a club it gave me a flush which he seemed to overlook the possibility of as he went all in!


Won my first sit'n'go tournament last night. I say won, it was a D2N so I made the winning three and 'won' the all in shove hand to end the tournament :laugh

[MattR]

Getting a taste for these D2N games now. Just made the three winners again. From the ratio of the winnings to the buy in, it looks like if you can get in the money 60% of the time it should turn a profit on these games.

I'm obviously talking from very limited experience of these but so far there always seems to be one or two who are gung ho and will slash or burn very early. Then it's a case of seeing it through the bubble.

I must admit I never really saw the attraction of online poker before. Now I do. Like most gambling related things it can be bloody frustrating at times with the bad beats but also hopefully ultimately rewarding.

[mathare]

Have a search on the forum for 10 pays 5 tourneys Matt. We had a discussion about these types of tourney a while ago

[MattR]

Will do Mat, thanks

[MattR]

Played some more D2N tourneys today, only small buy ins at $2.75 but keeping a good strike rate up so far.

Results so far (6 players, 3 paid, so bearing in mind actual result position of 1st to 3rd is of course just an all-in lottery and irrelevant)

5th
2nd
1st
3rd
3rd
4th
2nd
6th very bad call on my part, concentration lapse and got engrossed with my flush and totally disregarded the full house possibility with a pocket pair
1st
2nd

[counterfeit]

6th very bad call on my part, concentration lapse and got engrossed with my flush and totally disregarded the full house possibility with a pocket pair
1st
2nd

I guess it depends how the betting went but most of the time the flush would win, so don't beat yourself up unless the betting made it obvious you were against a FH.

[mathare]

I guess it depends how the betting went but most of the time the flush would win, so don't beat yourself up unless the betting made it obvious you were against a FH.This is a good point actually. Some hands you're going to go bust with and there's little you can do about it. Every time the board pairs you could be up against a full house or four of a kind but don't look for monsters that aren't out there. Unless the betting quite clearly says you're beaten don't lay down big hands like a flush. Someone could easily be overplaying a lower flush or a worse hand even. The rewards are often so great in a big pot that unless you are totally convinced you are beaten it's worth taking a chance on the end.

[counterfeit]

It's just my experience but a lot of players at a lower level play low flushes very badly. But, they also will play rag Aces far more than better players. Therefore, at Matt's level, when the board pairs I generally assume they have trips with an Ace kicker. Only when the board starts giving out flushes do I get worried.

Actually, when you are playing on a cash table, it sometimes pays to pay off a dodgy looking board just to see what your opponent is entering hands with. Sometimes it's worth losing $20 to see they just stuffed you when their A rag hit trips or they hit an 8 high flush. In any kind of tournament though, that's just a nightmare to be avoided.

[MattR]

Thanks for the advice guys.

The hand in question I had Q9 of hearts three of us checked pre flop and the rest folded. The flop was 8h3d7h, one player folded , he raised 10 which I called. So at this stage I figured he either had a high card with an 8 or 7 or perhaps or maybe a 65 - he was on the auto paid blind hand - I didn't think he had a pocket pair as he had previously had a couple and gone in with bigger initial bets pre flop. So that's something I shouldn't have disregarded really but did. The turn produced a 6h. This gave me my flush. He bet 100 and I thought ok two pairs or perhaps he's now got the straight or is one card off it. I re-raised and he called it. On the river came a 6c. I thought ok that's his straight if he didn't already have it so I went all in (had about 600 chips left) and he turned over a 6d8s for the full house.

One guy this morning had pocket 9's four times in about 7 hands and won every time with them, twice with a final 9 on the river including once all in against AA.

[counterfeit]

Thanks for the advice guys.

The hand in question I had Q9 of hearts

(had about 600 chips left) and he turned over a 6d8s for the full house.



If ever there was situation that brings to mind one of the most important phrases in poker.

"If it's good enough to play, it's good enough to raise with".

Any kind of raise pre-flop and 6d8s folds. Also, it is unlikely he would have called a reraise after the flop.

I'm not into criticising but that's exactly the sort of mistake I used to make all the time. You had two clear chances to win that hand.

If you can remove from your play the calls then you will win more money. Personally, with Q9h, I would generally fold unless I was on the button or in the blinds, in which case I would raise or fold. Unfortunately, Q9 is a really horrible hand to play and is probably best avoided.

Having said that, you did get very unlucky and by my reckoning would have won that hand (at the river stage) about 90% of the time.

[MattR]

Thanks CF, advice duly noted. I think that's something I need to be more aggressive on when I'm playing a hand against someone in the blinds. Chances are they're looking to get lucky in the flop on the cheap.


Well the D2N is still going well today. Played 4 so far today including one at $6.05 (3rd)

Today has been
4th
3rd
1st
3rd

$2.75 buy ins 7/10 in the money
$6.05 buy ins 2/3 in the money

Haven't noticed much difference on the whole in the $6.05. There's generally a bit more restraint although I've only been in 3 so bit early to say whether that's a general trend or not.

[mathare]

In that full house hand the BB played poorly but got lucky. As CF has already said there arte improvements that could be made to your play too but this guy called a raise with two pair when a third heart hit the board. He got very lucky to beat you.

When the board reads 8h-3d-7h-6h-6c and you have two hearts you have a real hand. Your flush is only Q high, yes, so there are two better flushes possible. He bets out small and you call, you have the odds for the draw (implied odds if not pot odds) so this is a decent enough play. You could have raised but what does it gain you? You could stack this guy if things go right so why risk getting rid of him? The turn completes your draw so you raise (rightly) and he calls. We know after the event that he has two pair at this point but I'd be thinking he has a flush or an unlikely straight. You beat all but two flushes and all straights so you're in good shape here. Your 9h also blocks some of the very unlikely straight flushes offering you better protection. I like the all in on the river as there is no way you can put this guy on a full house. You were just unlucky.

Should you have been in the hand with Q9s in the first place? Now there's a question. Not a hand I like to play and we don't know your position but given the blinds were small in relation to the stacks this is a hand to ditch or raise with - folding to a re-raise or any serious flop action. With Q9s you don't really want to see an overcard on the flop (K or A) unless you get both and they are both of your suit. You're not going to see enough hearts on the board often enough to make it hand to play for the flush potential and the straight potential is limited by the gaps in the middle (missing J, T to connect your cards). So it has weak high card potential, average flush potential and pretty poor straight potential. Bearing all that in mind if you're going to play it to mix up your play then raise and hope to steal the blinds. Else the only other time to play it is as a steal from the button.

[MattR]

Thanks for the analysis Mat, very helpful.

In light of your points, I think I probably have been overvaluing the high(ish) suited hand and playing it too often when not on the blinds. Yes I did get unlucky in the hand in question but as you say whether I should have been in it in the first place is questionable. I think part of it in this case was that the game had been going a while with nothing really happening other than exchanging chips back and forth and it was only about the second or third potentially playable hand I'd had at that stage and with hindsight and your's and cf's insight I was probably a bit impatient in playing it. Also the fact I'd been in the money the previous two tournaments probably made me over confident so it was also a good little wake up call too.

I'm beginning to see what you meant with your points about some of the players at that level. You can go in with say AQ and 74Q comes out on the flop and one of the players could well be sitting on 2 pairs (74) having gone in with a crap hand (and not on the blind). Frustrating to lose a hand like that.

I've already seen some crazy all-ins, the most annoying of which was a 5000 chip leader going all in with 87 against a guy on 600 chips and in last place on the bubble who'd gone all in after a flop of AQ7 thereby handing him 600 free chips when he was sitting with AQ pairs. I could understand if he'd gone all in if betting first to try to scare him into folding but the 600 chip guy had gone all in first and to my mind without a good hand what's the point in giving him an easy way back into the game?

[counterfeit]

It's going very well so I don't want to make out that you are doing things wrong because as long as you are making money that's the whole objective.

[mathare]

It's going very well so I don't want to make out that you are doing things wrong because as long as you are making money that's the whole objective.Yeah. Sorry about that Matt.

All this poker talk really makes me want to get back on the tables but I am busy most of this week. Fortunately I have a home game lined up for Friday night :thumbs

[counterfeit]

He bets out small and you call, you have the odds for the draw (implied odds if not pot odds) so this is a decent enough play. You could have raised but what does it gain you? You could stack this guy if things go right so why risk getting rid of him?



Mat - For once when talking about poker I disagree with you. Matt was only on a draw himself so a raise would have defined his hand. If the BB called the raise then Matt would have known he either had a made hand or was on a draw. If he had reraised then he definitely had a massive draw or a made hand.

In these circumstances I immediately fold to a reraise (on a table where I don't really know the player concerned) and I am very cautious if he has called my raise. If he was on a draw then the 6 probably made every draw. At this point I am not sure whether he has hit a flush or a straight (as it was it was neither) but I am no longer that confident of my Q high flush and play it for what it is - a good but not brilliant hand. I can get bluffed off these hands by massive bets but I try to play percentage poker so it's a risk I am willing to take.

Odds are he would have folded to the initial raise I would have made on the flop (if he hadn't folded to my pre-flop raise) and then I pocket a few chips and don't have to worry anymore about what hand he's hit.

Silax has the attitude in tourneys that you only play a few (big) hands and hope to double up but my philosophy has always been that it is better to be constantly raking in small pots and have enough chips for a showdown if it comes to it.

Oddly enough, although we disagree on how to play it, we do agree that we wouldn't have been in the hand in the first place, which is good to know.

I have just thought of something - give me ten minutes (gotta make the kids tea) and I will post up a new thread.

[mathare]

Mat - For once when talking about poker I disagree with you. Matt was only on a draw himself so a raise would have defined his hand. If the BB called the raise then Matt would have known he either had a made hand or was on a draw. If he had reraised then he definitely had a massive draw or a made hand. I'm working on the assumption here that the blinds are tiny (I think Matt said at one point the BB bet 10 chips). I'm looking to call here to hit a big hand and get bigger bets in on the turn and river. I want the BB in this pot. Any raise from me here would be a min-raise only in an attempt to build a pot to allow me to get more in on later streets but as I am drawing I don't want too big a pot. What could the BB have that I am worried about at this point? An overpair - fine, I know I need to hit my flush and that's what I want to do. Straight draw - see above. A set - again, I'm happy enough as I'm after the flush. Flush draw - only two can beat me and will I be able to tell whether he has a better flush draw than me at this stage, I don't think so.


In these circumstances I immediately fold to a reraise (on a table where I don't really know the player concerned) and I am very cautious if he has called my raise.Agreed. I wouldn't call a reraise here but if the turn completes my draw then it comes down to does he have a better flush than me? I'm going to lose a lot of chips finding out maybe but I'll be raising the turn and seeing how he reacts. I'd probably call a turn reraise if the flush has hit.


If he was on a draw then the 6 probably made every draw. At this point I am not sure whether he has hit a flush or a straight (as it was it was neither) but I am no longer that confident of my Q high flush and play it for what it is - a good but not brilliant hand. That 6h turn is a blessing and a curse. It completes my good (but not brilliant, as you rightly say) draw and completes a lot of worse draws. Overall I am in pretty good shape though.


I can get bluffed off these hands by massive bets but I try to play percentage poker so it's a risk I am willing to take.And it's a fair risk to take. I can fully see why you play that way.


Odds are he would have folded to the initial raise I would have made on the flop (if he hadn't folded to my pre-flop raise) and then I pocket a few chips and don't have to worry anymore about what hand he's hit.Safety first, yes. I like to think I also take that approach in general but on the assumption that I am in this hand having limped (as you know I wouldn't have made the play but that's not the point) I would be calling on the flop looking to hit a monster I can stack this guy with. I can double up early and cruise to the money. If I miss the turn and it comes a scare card I am out of there with minimal loss. I'm looking to go for a small loss or a big win. I think my small loss would be bigger than yours in this hand if it doesn't go my way but I really think I could take this guy off a big portion of his stack based on that flop.


Silax has the attitude in tourneys that you only play a few (big) hands and hope to double up but my philosophy has always been that it is better to be constantly raking in small pots and have enough chips for a showdown if it comes to it.I can't get my head round Silax's approach - it doesn't suit my natural game. I'm more aligned to your play here. Without knowing position I can't say whether I would fold or raise pre-flop but based on the small flop pot I want to keep the pot small but maximise my chances of taking the guy down and I think I can do that best by calling his bet.


Oddly enough, although we disagree on how to play it, we do agree that we wouldn't have been in the hand in the first place, which is good to know.:)

[John]

I've already seen some crazy all-ins, the most annoying of which was a 5000 chip leader going all in with 87 against a guy on 600 chips and in last place on the bubble who'd gone all in after a flop of AQ7 thereby handing him 600 free chips when he was sitting with AQ pairs. I could understand if he'd gone all in if betting first to try to scare him into folding but the 600 chip guy had gone all in first and to my mind without a good hand what's the point in giving him an easy way back into the game?

Nothing annoys me more than the above! You're second from last place in an STT for example - on the bubble - the short stack shoves - I'm thinking if anyone's going to call him PLEASE call with GOOD CARDS. Why let him back into the game? Be patient, let him shove, let him steal, and wait till you can eliminate him with good cards. Let him shove to a better hand.

Right, I don't have much free time today so have read these new posts quite quickly - good to see you are making profits Matt. :thumbs

[counterfeit]

Nothing annoys me more than the above! You're second from last place in an STT for example - on the bubble - the short stack shoves - I'm thinking if anyone's going to call him PLEASE call with GOOD CARDS. Why let him back into the game? Be patient, let him shove, let him steal, and wait till you can eliminate him with good cards. Let him shove to a better hand.


Therein lies a problem all of its own. If you are second last then watching the short stack steal and steal is so annoying. They can quickly get to second chip leader doing that. Calling their all in with good cards is no guarantee either that they will get busted.

[MattR]

Just played a cash lobby game. Went in with $50 and left 30 minutes later with $87 so well pleased with that. :) Now bring on AC Milan tonight!

[counterfeit]

$50 - must have been reasonable stakes. At least .25/.50.

Brave man for an early go at a cash table. Well done though. By my reckoning that's a profit of £45-£50 per hour. Very nice.

[MattR]

Thanks CF. It was actually a $1/$2 table and I played strictly to that guide you linked. Got involved only then and won I think 4 of the 7 hands I played with a couple of those losses check/folds. Also won a nice BB with a QTs that became a flush.

I did try the cash lobby initially before I started on the D2N's on the smallest tables but wasn't really getting anywhere. One was because I was just beginning and playnig hands every now and then that I shouldn't have been and another was I think because of the small stakes I wasn't being disciplined about getting involved or calling when I didn't have the hand to do so without getting lucky. So after the positive D2N games I thought I'd have another venture into the cash lobby. I was going to go on the $0.50/$1 but there was a space free on a $1/$2 table and there were no players with large wads of money in there to bully you into folding all the time.

What level table do you generally play in the cash lobbies? Omaha isn't I recall you saying you play mostly?

[counterfeit]

Omaha tends to be pot limit and I generally play 1/2 or 2/4. I can play higher but I'm not that comfortable at higher levels so I stick to what I'm good at.

When I play Holdem I usually play at anything where I can get a game between 1/2 and 5/10. I am quite happy to play much lower as well because I know that I can just milk the tables.