Rule 4 Deductions

[TheGoodGuy]

Hi All,

In all the time I've been punting on the horses, I've NEVER found a bookmaker website that gives an easy to find clear, concise and accurate explanation/amount of their Rule 4 deductions for any given race.
I was recently deducted 80p/£ in a race by Victor Chandler (had to phone them to find out how much as I couldn't find the amount in my VC Account/Statement or VC's Race Result details), but when looking at Corals, they only 'seemed' to be deducting 45p/£ in the same race.
Can this be right?

All I'm asking is where can all the Rule 4 deductions for any given race EASILY be found?

:thumbs

[Godspot]

It says here that total deductions should not exceed 75p in the pound:

http://www.the-secret-system.com/horseracing-rule4.htm

[TheGoodGuy]

It says here that total deductions should not exceed 75p in the pound

Thanks for the link Godspot......I think I might go back to VC with that and see what they say....I'm only quibbling about a few measly quid but it's the principle isn't it?

Are Bookies allowed to independently calculate/concoct their own Rule 4 deductions as and when, presumably depending on the odds they offer at the time of withdrawals etc (ie BOG), or is there an industry 'standard' that they should follow?

[vegyjones]

Looks like the 75p thing only comes into efffect if there is more than one withdrawal.

http://www.tattersallscommittee.co.uk/Rules%20on%20Betting%20Consultation%20Document%20Final.pdf

See page 16 for rule 4 section c in its entirity.

[Godspot]

From what I can work out Ada - the closer the horse was to evens the more likely there has been a mistake -

I think the table on the link is the industry standard & it would only vary per bookie for their early odds or BOG but

80p is over the top anyway - maybe there were two withdrawals but it says the most will be 75p -

If the horse was 1/3 75p would be OK but if it was evens then Corals 45p sounds right.

[vegyjones]

Hmm, having looked a little more, looks like the maximum deduction varies between bookies. Some have a max of 75%.

[Win2Win]

Total takeout at VC is 90p. Are we talking about the race the other day with I think 3 late withdrawals and so resulted in 3 Rule 4's in the same race? That's when the Rule 4 favours the bookies when they get more than 1 qualifier, especially as the Fav didn't run in that race as well.




Non-Runner Price When Withdrawn Amount Deducted From Winnings

1/9 or shorter: 90p in the £1
2/11 to 2/17: 85p in the £1
1/4 to 1/5: 80p in the £1
3/10 to 2/7: 75p in the £1
2/5 to 1/3: 70p in the £1
8/15 to 4/9: 65p in the £1
8/13 to 4/7: 60p in the £1
4/5 to 4/6: 55p in the £1
20/21 to 5/6: 50p in the £1
Evens to 6/5: 45p in the £1
5/4 to 6/4: 40p in the £1
13/8 to 7/4: 5p in the £1
15/8 to 9/4: 30p in the £1
5/2 to 3/1: 25p in the £1
10/3 to 4/1: 20p in the £1
9/2 to 11/2: 15p in the £1
6/1 to 9/1: 10p in the £1
10/1 to 14/1: 5p in the £1
Over 14/1: No deduction
In the event of two or more horses being withdrawn, the total deductions shall not exceed 90p in the £1. If there is insufficient time to form a new market on a race, S.P. bets may also be subject to a Rule 4 deduction.
Deductions will apply only to bets at board prices struck prior to the announcement of the withdrawal.
The above scale will also apply in the case of non-runners in Early Price races and will be used for other events where we specifically advertise, either in these rules or at the event itself that Tattersalls Rule 4 (abbreviated to Rule 4) may apply.
For withdrawals relating to ante-post, advertised Early Prices and greyhounds please refer to the appropriate section

[TheGoodGuy]

The race in question was the 19:20 Killarney on 16th May.
CLICK HERE (http://horses.sportinglife.com/Arch_Race/0,12658,432999,00.html) for the Sporting Life result page.......9 runners but 12 NRs/withdrawals.
I had a small EW bet on 3rd placed Cootamundra and got BOG of 17/2 but still ended up losing money after the Rule 4 was applied.

[mathare]

Are Bookies allowed to independently calculate/concoct their own Rule 4 deductions as and when, presumably depending on the odds they offer at the time of withdrawals etc (ie BOG), or is there an industry 'standard' that they should follow?R4 deductions depend on the withdrawn horse's price at the time and as this can vary across the firms so will the R4 deductions. Rule 4 lays out a standard deduction rate in pence per pound for each possible odds and the bookies must stick to that i.e. Bet365 and Victor Chandler will each reduce payouts by 10p in the pound for the withdrawal of a horse trading at 7/1 but of course a horse may be 7/1 with one firm and much shorter/longer with another, potentially changing the R4 deduction.

Interestingly though, my copy of the R4 table says that 3/10 or longer odds on is a 75p deduction and doesn't break it down further than that.

But in answer to your question about easily finding R4s, you can't as each firm's deductions on a market could be different. The only way I have found of checking the R4s over the years is to actually have had a bet in that market and check what my settlement figure was and worked back from there (if the bet settler didn't explicitly state it)