Racing Post Explained

[Meddle]

Sorry to ask such a simple question, but I was wondering if somebody could please explain the three fields shown at the end of the row when viewing a horse's form on the Racing Post online. The fields in question are headed "OR" (which I think mean Official Rating), "TS" and "PM".

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[toploader]

topspeed and postmark.
Topspeed assesses each horses race time in relation to their official ratings e.g. a TS bigger than its OR is very good.
Postmark is the racing posts private handicapper, they give a rating on what they think the horses chances are.

[Meddle]

Many thanks Toploader

[GlosRFC]

Actually, that's given me an idea about doing some kind of interactive roadmap to deciphering the Racing Post racecards. Okay, most people know what some of the numbers mean but why, for example, are some of the form figures shown in bold? What does the long handicap thing mean? How significant are the differences between the Postmark, Topspeed and Official Rating figures? What's that number between the trainers name and the weight? What's the weight raised all about on the detailed card? Why do some of the weights have letters and numbers after them and what are those numbers after the jockey's name, e.g. Edmo Yewkay (IRE) 14 3 9-2b1 D Allan(3)?
What does it mean when it says something like (ex7) after the number of days since last run?

I've never actually been able to find anything on the RP site that explains it all.

I'm happy to create something and even host it on my own site but, as I don't understand some of the things I've highlighted above, I'd first need to know if it's something worth doing and second, I'd need some assistance from a few of you to provide the explainations so that I can build them into the page(s).

Any views from people? If you think it's a non-starter, I'll get my hat and coat now.......

[TheOldhamWhisper]

b1 would indicate Blinkers first time - ex 7 would be a penalty for a win and the figure in brackets after the jockeys name would be the jockey's allowance.

Figures in bold (form) as far as I can tell refer to a different surface (AW).

Another figure you would see sometimes is a number followed by the letter p in brackets after the days since last run eg (21p) which denotes that the horse ran in a point to point race 21 days ago.

Hope this helps.

[GlosRFC]

Yes, that does all help so thanks. Just a little further clarification required:


ex 7 would be a penalty for a win and the figure in brackets after the jockeys name would be the jockey's allowance.

So an ex7 would mean to add 7lbs to the quoted weight whereas a (3) would mean to subtract 3lbs from the quoted weight? Or are both the penalty and the allowance already accounted for in the quoted weight?

I can already sense some mileage in creating a dummy racecard for newbies like me with explanations popping up when you hover over it with the mouse.

[frontrunner]

Yes, that does all help so thanks. Just a little further clarification required:



So an ex7 would mean to add 7lbs to the quoted weight whereas a (3) would mean to subtract 3lbs from the quoted weight? Or are both the penalty and the allowance already accounted for in the quoted weight?

I can already sense some mileage in creating a dummy racecard for newbies like me with explanations popping up when you hover over it with the mouse.

Hello GlosRFC,

the ex 7lb is already included in the weight (you will notice that horses who have to carry an ex 7lb won their last race) with regard to the (3) on a racecard by the jockeys name this means he has an allowance of 3lb so whatever the weight the horse is set to carry deduct 3lb.

atb
Frontrunner
:spinning

[GlosRFC]

Okay, I've made a start on my interactive "Racing Post" racecard explainer - so far I've only done the obvious things which you'll see explained in the black area at the bottom of the screen when you run your mouse over them.

I'll try to finish the rest of it in the next day or so but, for now, I'd appreciate any feedback - is the text visible or not?, do my explanations make sense?, does it load quickly enough?, etc. etc.

Cheers

http://www.pi.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/test/RPcard.html

[wistda]

That's a useful tool Glos. It took me months to work out and guess what the abbrevaitions all added up to! It amazes me that the Racing Post doesn't have a simple explanation guide to their site.

[GlosRFC]

Glad you think so - I'm pretty flabbergasted too! Maybe I can earn a few bob by offering it to the RP site....heh

If you know what most of the stuff means, any idea what a t signifies or the (9F) and (28P)? Also, if you know what the long handicap reference means, feel free to share it so I can build it in.

Thanks for the feedback.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

9F - ran in a NH race 9 days ago
28P - ran in a point to point race 28 days ago

[GlosRFC]

Thanks Oldham....presumably the F means a flat race on the NH course.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

not necessarily - could mean fences (but they also put it for bumpers as they are NH races too). You can only tell from the form pages.

[toploader]

Oldham, the F means a flat race im sure??? A NH race is 9J, J for jumps, i might be wrong but thats what ive always read it as for years!

[toploader]

Long handicap means the horse is out of the handicap as their rating is too low.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Oldham, the F means a flat race im sure??? A NH race is 9J, J for jumps, i might be wrong but thats what ive always read it as for years!

Think you could well be right there Toploader - sounds a heck of a lot more feasible than what I put down.

Do you know if they put a j if the race was a bumper? I'm sure I've seen that before and been confused by it.

[GlosRFC]

Thanks folks...on the long handicaps, that makes sense to me, toploader, but I'm baffled what the figures mean.

I'm happy to go with F=flat race on NH course, J=jump race as that now seems to be the consensus.

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Glos - f could also appear if it's a NH race and the last run was on the flat. I'll watch out for an example and see if I can work it out.

[toploader]

F is flat racing, not on an NH course, it means a flat race as part of the flat season. J means all National Hunt races including bumpers as a bumper is still an NH race. You just have to look back throught the form to check.

[toploader]

Ill try my best to explain long handicapping to you. The horses that are in the long handicap are shown in the RP along with their weights. Ill use an example from today,

2.10 Doncaster

Night Sight - Long handicap 7-9

But if you look at Night Sight in the card, you'll see he is actually carrying 7-12, this is because they couldnt find any jockeys light enough to make the 7-9. As all horses carry weight in relation to their chances of winning the race this horses is carrying 3lbs ''overweight''. So he has a harder task with that 3lbs, if you see what i mean.

In actual fact the horse finished 3rd at 5/1 when it was forecast at 20/1!

So the odd one does occasionally do well, and some jockeys will make the weight but generally there a load of crap, a famous example would be the grand national.

[toploader]

Glos, i wouldnt mind one of those reputation points :)

[GlosRFC]

Toploader...happy to oblige and welcome to the human race :D

http://www.pi.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/test/RPcard.html

That's the design pretty much sorted out - I kept it cheap and cheerful so it downloads pretty quick, plus added some brief instructions on using the guide for those who are rodently-challenged.

I guess the only things to ask now are:-
1. Does it look okay in most peoples browsers/screen resolutions? I should add that if you don't have the Flash Player download you won't be able to see it but 95% of you should be okay...the remaining 5% can go to the Macromedia.com site and download it...it is free.

2. Where should it be hosted? If Keith wants it on his site that's fine by me if he wants to give me a shout. I can continue to host it but only those people who've read this forum thread will know that it exists.

3. Are my explanations accurate and do they actually make sense the way I've written them? Again, if not, just let me know.

Cheers all

[Win2Win]

Good job their GLOS, i'll post the link on the Win2Win Racing Links page, that way if it stays on your server, you can update it when you wish. :box

[GlosRFC]

That sounds like a plan to me. At the moment it's in a test area on my server but I'll transfer it to a newer home when it's all done and dusted and let you know what the url is.

I can still send it to you anyway if you want - it's only about 43kb in size with an accompanying html page. Might be handy as a backup if I go off the air perhaps?

Re the t...I thought that had something to do with a change of trainer - just goes to show what I know. Still, some of 'em should be tied - and not necessarily by the tongue if you get my drift :)

[altisw5]

FANTASTIC
This is what I think of the work Glos have made. I have been looking around and asking to understand the R.P. cards.
Here is on the black and white for everyone.
Compliments Glos.

[mathare]

Only just found this thread again. I knew you were developing this but hadn't seen the finished product.

Very well done :)

Racecards can be tricky beasts to read if you don't know what you are doing. And Racing Post like to add more to their cards than most. You've done a cracking job of making it simple for everyone to understand. I approve.

[simonkarios]

absolutely bloody marvellous...many thanks..excellent 4 the novice and more experienced alike.... :clp :spinning

[GlosRFC]

Good Lord....hush now or else not only will my head grow larger but Keith might want to throw another tenner my way :laugh

Seriously though I think it's all done so feel free to bookmark it if you wish. If there's sufficient interest, I'll make an executable version that folks can download to their desktop.

[Littlewesty]

Hi Glos,

Just found the link Most useful.

Thanks. Display is okay too.

Dave

[altisw5]

As I said the link is very useful.
Still understanding all the weights,O.R. etc is a bit hard.

When the O.R.is up have the weight to go up as well?
Today 5 Aug 3.15 Bath Somerset West is having a O.R.66 from previous 65,but the weight is 8-7 from 8-12 previous.
Or is the weight the "horse weight" and have no conection with the extra given from O.R.
Is a link I miss.

[GlosRFC]

Somebody will no doubt correct me if I'm wrong, but the Official Rating isn't directly equivalent to weight. The idea behind a handicap is to give ALL horses an equal chance of winning so therefore, even if the horse's OR has gone up albeit slightly, in relative terms for that particular race there may be more horses that are rated much higher and would normally be expected to beat Somerset West. In that case, the weight of Somerset West has probably been reduced in order to give him a chance of competing with these better horses.

The handicapper will use the OR's to determine the top weight in any particular race and then adjust all the remaining weights accordingly so it's perfectly feasible for a horse's OR to go up yet the weight to go down or vice versa.

Hope that's accurate (and it helps you)

Thanks for the feedback Littlewesty :)

[GlosRFC]

Apologies for bumping this back up to the top but I've made a couple of changes (included d=disqualified in form column and e/s=eye shields in weight column)

http://www.pi.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/test/RPcard.html

[samantha1303]

Excellent work Glos.
I have a question.
In the example of Lennel it says 9-2 for the weight, but underneath it says long handicap lennel 9-7.
How much weight will lennel be carrying in that race?

[plater]

MINIMUM WEIGHT

Just looked at this thread and found the error Sam is referring to.

In all Handicaps you will have a minimum weight to be carried, along with, conditions 0-85 for eg, prize money, penalties , handicap mark for top weight, ( this is found under the header for all races in the Racing Post).

So in the example of 9-7 actually carring 9-2 is incorrect, the bottom horses will only be "Out of the handicap" if they have a rating less than the minimum weight.

Eg
200 @ somewhere
____________________________________________
£1000 added for 3yo - rated 0-85 , minimum weight 7-12, penalties after August 2nd, a winner 6lb, Horse no.1 handicap mark 85, prize money etc.
____________________________________________
1 Horse a 3yo 9-7lb
2 Horse b 3yo 9-3lb
3 Horse c 3yo 8-13lb
4 Horse d 3yo 8-11lb
5 Horse e 3yo 7-12lb
____________________________________________
Long Handicap Horse e 7-2lb
____________________________________________

So horse E is carring 10lb more than its official rating.

Hope thats cleared that up "I Think" :doh

Plater

[Onlyforfun]

How does the 0-85 work, by my (metric aged) reckoning, 9-7 = 151 lbs. :doh

[GlosRFC]

First thing Sam, my example is not intended to be factually correct in all the race-card details - what's important is that the explanations are correct (the ones that appear at the bottom when you hover your mouse over the various parts of the screen) - I thought I'd covered this with the terms "the official weight" and "the weight the horse would normally be expected to carry".

If I'm reading Plater's post correctly, a long handicap would indicate that the horse is technically over-handicapped for this particular race. In other words, to satisfy the conditions of this particular race, the horse is having to carry more weight than it would normally be expected to.

If that's correct, I've made a further few quick changes to put the explanations into layman's terms (you might have to refresh the page or clear your cache to see the new one) which should clarify things.

http://www.pi.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/test/RPcard.html

Again, thanks to everyone for the feedback.

[GlosRFC]

Onlyforfun...the 0-85 indicates official ratings between 0 and 85 and not an actual weight.

For example, if you have a horse rated 0 running against a horse rated 85, then you would expect there to be a larger disparity between the weights than if you have two horses both rated at 85.

[plater]

Hi Glos, Good stuff with the explination on the site, I am only trying to make sure people understand the relevance and remove the confusion, the racecard details may well not be exact, but the explination must be.

Yep your right there, any horse out of the handicap means it is set to carry more weight than its official handicap mark due to the minimum weight for that race, not counting the allowance's, it might only be 2lb out, but may have a 7lb claimer on board, making it 5lb better off.


Plater

[John]

I've only just surfed on to your site Glos, and I must say I'm very impressed - excellent work. I always used to assume that the number in brackets say, (5), to the right of the jockey's name, represented the number of times the jockey had ridden the horse in the past. Your explanations on the site and on here have made all become clear. :)

On a slightly different subject, does anyone know where I can get information from about the draw bias for all English racecourses? Referring to the racecard, Chester racecourse is favourable for horses drawn in the middle, is it not? Therefore Vanburgh (Drawn 4), Iberus (Drawn 5), and Down Memory Lane (Drawn 6) would all have a good chance with regard to the draw?

[TheOldhamWhisper]

Draw Advantages (http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/draw_advantage/) courtesy of the Sporting Life.

[John]

Thanks Oldham